08-09 Civic Si Vs. 90 H22 Accord

[CB7Man]

Car looked just like that.
Anyway, me and some friends were cruisin last night. We were rolling through downtown and as we got out of downtown we passed a Civic Si.
I was leading and as I rolled by, all of a sudden he sped up to me and we met at a red light.
He gives a Rev So I know its on. Hell Ill race an Si

Light turns green and I launch at 3K. Both cars are pretty even, at the top of first he is maybe just behind my front bumper, he shifts first. This knocks him back to my mirror, then I shifted and my car seemed to just pull away, at the end of second he was at my back bumper.
I scratched 3rd so I stopped racing lol

I thought the new Si's were faster?
Makes me wonder if I can take on an S2000?

[kenjin]

nice kill!

[AcCoRd91cBsEveN]

Depends on the driver and you basically lost that race cause you fucked up on 3rd and he was gonna pass you if you didn't stop, look for a s2000 and race em and tell us lol.

[jamaicancb3]

I guess you could say that's an "ok-ish" race. Just like how you said, you expected that the Si to be faster. Well i guess the guy couldn't drive. IMO if he could drive it would turn out to be more like this vid i'm attaching (very close). Gear ratio plays a big role and lil bit of the weight.

[h22sparkle]

Depends on the driver and you basically lost that race cause you fucked up on 3rd and he was gonna pass you if you didn't stop, look for a s2000 and race em and tell us lol.

I ran a s2k before that was by-far the best and most fun allmotor race I had . The vtec on that is so distinctive when i raped him with my phearable.net ecu at the time. I really laugh at the new si not because at what im driving.

Its becuase how I see the same fanboys puttin the same flags on the mirror,yellow fogs slammed to the ground. Someone needs to invest something new fo rthose cars to change up the game a bit.

I get tired of seeing the same old shit on cars like copycats for once id like to see something that I will say hey thats nice there goes something you dont see everyday. Anyways man good race try to work on your third gear okay. You see what alot of people dont realize is this when you do a car you gotta do it right if you do what everyone else is doing it shows you have no originality and it makes you a target. Stand out but dont fit in thats what it means to be original.

[mndude07]

My friend had one of these. 3rd gear is where the car really takes off. Too bad you stopped racing at that point. The H22's higher torque is what got you off the line faster. A longer race and the si would almost certainly win.

[h22sparkle]

My friend had one of these. 3rd gear is where the car really takes off. Too bad you stopped racing at that point. The H22's higher torque is what got you off the line faster. A longer race and the si would almost certainly win.

probably which one is lighter though the cb or the si?

[fatboy1185]

A stock SI puts down around 170whp stock. Is your H22 stock?

[CB7Man]

I have a JDM H22A so Im figuring roughly 190 HP, with a T2T4 (F20B) LSD tranny
I dont have the balancerbelt on and I had the Dizzy adjusted.
I was useing my USDM ECU

I get to excited when I race haha, I dont press the clutch all the way down.

I would think I won, I pulled him
But trying to get into 3rd is stupid, We had a redlight infront of us

So Pretty much in a city block I pwnd a new Si

[King James]

I doubt very much that your putting 190 to the wheels with a stock h22.

Id say it was more the driver that lost than the car.....Ive ridden in h22 cbs and I had an 08 si and I would have to say the si would win 8 out of 10 times.

Who really needs to put his 2 cents in is owequitit....he does own both after all.....but Im pretty sure hes also said the si is faster.

And honestly a race to third gear doesnt sound like much of a race.

[h22sparkle]

hmm you have to be putting out 176 or 180whp with bolt-ons honestly. As for the racing to third sounds like you need your tranmission fixed maybe the synchros are having issues engaging from you getting blocked out.

You cant really determine the si is faster tot he cb if 2 different people are driving different cars or if that 1 person is driving the same car. People drive differently no matter what car they are in. And cars react differently to the way how people drive them.

[CB7Man]

idk, all I can say is 1st and 2nd gear the Si was failing miserably
He was in third by the time I was about 6000 rpms in 2nd

The VTEC sounds nasty on those K20's too
If I was benchtop racing I could look at a few numbers
The 2010 SI has a quarter mile like this
1/4 mile: 15.2 seconds @ 95 mph
A 94 Prelude Si Vtec has a quarter like this
1/4 mile: 15.2 seconds @ 96 mph

So to me, seeing this I could assume a lighter bodied H22 Accord would run faster than the original Prelude, then running faster than a Si

[fatboy1185]

Stock vs stock, a healthy H22 with tranny would be a good match on a stock SI. End of that discussion.

[owequitit]

I doubt very much that your putting 190 to the wheels with a stock h22.

Id say it was more the driver that lost than the car.....Ive ridden in h22 cbs and I had an 08 si and I would have to say the si would win 8 out of 10 times.

Who really needs to put his 2 cents in is owequitit....he does own both after all.....but Im pretty sure hes also said the si is faster.

And honestly a race to third gear doesnt sound like much of a race.

They won't listen anyway.

idk, all I can say is 1st and 2nd gear the Si was failing miserably
He was in third by the time I was about 6000 rpms in 2nd

The VTEC sounds nasty on those K20's too
If I was benchtop racing I could look at a few numbers
The 2010 SI has a quarter mile like this
1/4 mile: 15.2 seconds @ 95 mph
A 94 Prelude Si Vtec has a quarter like this
1/4 mile: 15.2 seconds @ 96 mph

So to me, seeing this I could assume a lighter bodied H22 Accord would run faster than the original Prelude, then running faster than a Si

Sorry dude, but it was probably driver error. They would be about even with a few bolt ons on the H22, in the Accord.

1) Were those 1/4 mile times recorded on the same day, same track, same driver? No.

2) The Si is lighter than the Accord by about 100 lbs, and the Prelude VTEC you are using for comparison is also lighter than the Accord, and is actually a bit lighter than the Si.

3) If he was in 3rd by the time you were hitting 6000RPM's in 2nd, he was short shifting, especially with that tranny. The M2B4 on an H22 hits redline at around ~65MPH and your 2nd gear should be about the same. The Civic Si is very close to that on its 2nd gear redline. By "redline" I am assuming pretty much rev limit, since the best way to get acceleration out of a Honda is to revlimit in most cases. Accounting for the fact that your 2nd gear is slighly lower than an M2B4, it is possible that he redlined slightly before you, but not that much.

4) A stock Si puts down about as much power as a healthy JDM H22, but then again you have more weight and wider gearing, both of which offset the equality. In the first couple gears, it would be the torque that would help you out some. Then again, the Si seems to have a better bottom end torque curve (not much of an issue if you are at 3K or better), and it has much lower gearing in 1st-5th gears. So even though it has lower torque, it has lower gearing which helps offset that since lower gearing multiplies torque more. Per the numbers, you have about 15% more torque, but the Si has on average 24% shorter gearing, which means that even if the torque is not under-rated on the K20 (it seems to be slightly under-rated in many cases), then it is still putting down more wheel torque than your H22 by virtue of gearing. The downside to lower gearing is that you redline at a slower speed, but the K20 makes up for much of that with the 8200RPM rev limit, versus the H22's 7600RPM stock rev limit, which is almost 10% higher. Also, the K20 has a broader torque band than the H22, as it is still pulling very strong when it hits the limit, whereas the H22 is tapering off noticeably at that point (mostly stock engine with stock tune).

The gear ratios compare as follows:

15.55:1 versus your 14.01:1 or about 11% shorter

10.13:1 versus your 8.34:1 or about 21% shorter

7.22:1 versus your 5.73:1 or about 35% shorter

5.46:1 versus your 4.41:1 or about 24% shorter

4.38:1 versus your 3.36:1 or about 30% shorter

You can see that the only gear your 15% torque advantage pays off is in 1st, and even then it is just barely.

I have not been able to run a 4th gen Prelude VTEC, but I can tell you that I absolutely RAPED a 5th gen Prelude, from a launch with VSA on. We are talking nearly 3 cars by 70MPH raped. That car has similar weight and power to yours, but slightly worse gearing, so I don't think it is as valid for you to compare your car to a 4th gen, as it would be with a 5th gen.

Based on experience, here is what I surmise.

1) The driver didn't know how to launch. He may have tried to launch way to high (even 3K results in a fair amount of wheelspin at 5,000ft MSL).

2) The driver didn't turn VSA off. Anytime the ECU senses wheelspin with VSA on, it cuts timing and power, severely limiting the cars ability to accelerate.

Ultimately, with a good driver in both cars, it would have been a close race at best. Having done both, I would put my money on the Si 8-9 times out of 10, all else being completely equal. If you did win, it would have been by a slight amount, and then it is most likely because the driver couldn't wring everything out of the car.

Also, keep in mind that the Si is stock, and you are heavily modified. The Si has a warranty, a lot more refinement, a better ride quality, more features, less noise, and equal gas mileage. Had the Si had well planned strategic mods, it wouldn't have even been much of a contest.

[CB7Man]

So putting a stock H22 in my car is heavily modified?
All my OEM parts (which are alot) are warranted for 18,000 miles
My revlimiter is 7900, when it revlimits out of gear, it hits 8100
From what I saw, the new Si is kind of dud sorry to say
Idk, Ill go to the races next week and seek him out for a re-race.