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Old 12-17-2010, 08:00 PM   #1
19dabeast85
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Dyno chart baseline

As promised, here's my baseline dyno from my visit to TDC today in Spartanburg. Those guys know all about bisi and have his products on their own turboed D & B engines. Plan to have the bisi header installed in the next 2 weeks and another "after" dyno visit to compare the two.



Mods/maintenance items:

1. H23IM & TB with functional IAB's
2. Bisimoto heatshield gasket
3. True 3" CAI with Apexi Power dry filter
4. F22a6 cam with PT6 ecu
5. NGK wires with Denso Platinum TT stock heat range and gap LINK
6. DCsports header
7. OBX oe replacement cat
8. 2.5" I.D. mandrel catback with straight-thru muffler
9. NTK O2 sensor



244k miles on stock block.
Ambient air temperature ~60*f.
Dynojet dyno.





The sharp drop at 3,150rpms is detonation.




My Bisi header is designed for 220-230whp so keep that in mind. Also I'm running the stock a6 cam.

I installed the bisi header and a Magnaflow seamless 2.5" cat to dump into the same 2.5" exhaust used for the first dyno.

Ambient temperature was around 75* F.

Both the first dyno chart and one below are corrected to sea level with a smoothing of 5 so apples to apples there.

There are two dyno lines below, one (BLUE) is the bisi header setup on the pt6 ecu with wideband (you can see air/fuel VERY lean). This was dangerously lean so I had to get him to tune it. The other line (GREEN) is after tuning. Hubert couldn't squeeze much more out of the a6 cam. He fixed the detonation issue, made the engine alot smoother all around, adjusted iab opening rpm, disabled egr, set launch control at 5k, tuned for good fuel mileage, rev cut at 6,800, ecu shift light up at 6,500, etc...

The most power was made with timing advanced 2 degrees.

Ok, here it is.


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Last edited by 19dabeast85; 01-05-2012 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:06 PM   #2
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im ashamed i dont no how to read a dyno sheet, so is ur max hp 123 and tq 125?

dont sound rite.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
im ashamed i dont no how to read a dyno sheet, so is ur max hp 123 and tq 125?

dont sound rite.
Got to remember his engine has 244k on it(Its no spring chicken).Aswell as im sure he needs a tune for his set up and no telling what he would gain from an actual dyno tune could be 10whp+
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:12 PM   #4
19dabeast85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
im ashamed i dont no how to read a dyno sheet, so is ur max hp 123 and tq 125?

dont sound rite.
Yep! That's actually about average. Remember, the dyno is measuring wheel hp and tq. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss my engine gross output is 145hp, 147tq. That's 20hp and 10tq more than what the factory-fresh F22a1 was rated at. Or it's 5hp and 2tq over what the f22a6 was rated at.


I will say I was disappointed the torque was that low. Was expecting closer to 135 torque at the wheels.
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Bisimoto header before & after dyno

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Old 12-17-2010, 08:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19dabeast85 View Post
Yep! That's actually about average. Remember, the dyno is measuring wheel hp and tq. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss my engine gross output is 145hp, 147tq. That's 20hp and 10tq more than what the factory-fresh F22a1 was rated at. Or it's 5hp and 2tq over what the f22a6 was rated at.


I will say I was disappointed the torque was that low. Was expecting closer to 135 torque at the wheels.
Your setup, and results are very similar to mine. As can be expected with my smaller exhaust, torque is a little higher. It also looks like my IAB crossover is also a little smoother, but I have no idea why. This particular engine has 215k.

Mods/maintenance items:

1. H23 IM & TB with functional IAB's + gutted IAB spacer
2. Bisimoto heatshield gasket
3. Cone filter on stock intake piping
4. F22a6 cam with PT6 ecu
5. NGK plugs (factory heat range)
6. F22A4 header
7. 2.25" I.D. crush-bent catback with straight-thru muffler

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if aredy time i need to put something in cb7tuner. you guy need to me a smart ass about and bust on my spelling,gramar and shit like that in so sorry.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:17 PM   #6
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ahh whp! gotcha now.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:58 PM   #7
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Something was wrong with their rpm pickup i just noticed....rpm and tq always cross at 5,250 rpms, my graph shows them crossing at 5400. Adjust the graph and our iab's open at the same time.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:11 PM   #8
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Are you going to get them to actually tune it next round?
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:38 PM   #9
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Supergenius may have said something they shouldn't have...
closer to 10-12 percent parasitic drivetrain loss.


No hes not tuning. The spirit of the test is a BOLT ON experience. The one that most people (Maybe not that spend 1K on a header LOL) wouldfollow. Most people with a stock CB that buy this header wont tune.

Sad, but true
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Supergenius View Post
closer to 10-12 percent parasitic drivetrain loss.


No hes not tuning. The spirit of the test is a BOLT ON experience. The one that most people (Maybe not that spend 1K on a header LOL) wouldfollow. Most people with a stock CB that buy this header wont tune.

Sad, but true
Hell if i spent that kinda cash id get a tune, but im not him nor is he me.Im excited to see some real life numbers though ima guess 10-15whp gain un tuned.He would benefit greatly with a tune on his current set up let alone with the bisi header.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19dabeast85 View Post
Something was wrong with their rpm pickup i just noticed....rpm and tq always cross at 5,250 rpms, my graph shows them crossing at 5400. Adjust the graph and our iab's open at the same time.
Wanted to say that I'm an idiot here......on my graph the torque and hp value labels are not on the same lines hence why it looks like their rpm pickup is wrong.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:05 AM   #12
19dabeast85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supergenius View Post
No hes not tuning. The spirit of the test is a BOLT ON experience. The one that most people (Maybe not that spend 1K on a header LOL) wouldfollow. Most people with a stock CB that buy this header wont tune.

Sad, but true
Correct sir, the whole point of my comparison is to shed some independent light on whether or not bisi's header is capable of adding +27whp or not ON A STOCK ECU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOHC-FTW View Post
Hell if i spent that kinda cash id get a tune, but im not him nor is he me.Im excited to see some real life numbers though ima guess 10-15whp gain un tuned.He would benefit greatly with a tune on his current set up let alone with the bisi header.
I agree with you 100%. It's gonna have the wideband on it and if it looks risky running the bisi header on the pt6(lean condition) then I'll have Hubert tune it. Christmas bonuses have made a tune an unforeseen-until-now possibility.


What do you guys think about the overall results here? Seem typical for my mileage? How about the A/F ratios and that blip on the last run from 3100-3300?
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 19dabeast85 View Post
What do you guys think about the overall results here? Seem typical for my mileage? How about the A/F ratios and that blip on the last run from 3100-3300?
From my experience, the results jive pretty well with an "OEM" modded engine, almost dead on with what mine made (minus the torque difference, most likely due to my smaller exhaust).
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if aredy time i need to put something in cb7tuner. you guy need to me a smart ass about and bust on my spelling,gramar and shit like that in so sorry.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:42 AM   #14
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IMO that engine should see significant gains at 3000-5000rpm with a tune. It is just asking for some tuning there.
I wonder what is causing that hump in the torque curve right at 4000. What is the exact rpm IABs open?
The air/fuel curve looks smooth. Looks like it goes a little above 14.0 right around 4000rpm. Interesting... could that be causing the torque hump?
I was going to say it is a little on the lean side overall. But do they just stick the wideband sensor in your tailpipe? It is probably showing a lot leaner ratios than they really are because you have a catalytic converter. So maybe it is actually on the rich side overall.
Sorry I am just a noob thinking out loud.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:54 AM   #15
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I always thought the IAB's opened at 4,900 stock, but the graph shows them opening at 4,200. They open up wherever the pt6 stock switch is set at.

It looks like the engine would have started leveling off at 4k had the IAB's not opened....which with the f22a1 cam IS where the engine makes peak torque. The IAB's with the a6 cam and exhaust setup gave the engine a bit wider, more significant power curve.
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:19 PM   #16
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I always thought the IAB's opened at 4,900 stock, but the graph shows them opening at 4,200. They open up wherever the pt6 stock switch is set at.

It looks like the engine would have started leveling off at 4k had the IAB's not opened....which with the f22a1 cam IS where the engine makes peak torque. The IAB's with the a6 cam and exhaust setup gave the engine a bit wider, more significant power curve.
But the torque drops significantly right around 4200rpm. Once that problem is fixed with tuning, you will have a much better power curve.
The IABs open at 4200, but I mean they can't be causing that torque drop. Has to be something else. Idk..
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Old 12-21-2010, 12:26 PM   #17
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But the torque drops significantly right around 4200rpm. Once that problem is fixed with tuning, you will have a much better power curve.
The IABs open at 4200, but I mean they can't be causing that torque drop. Has to be something else. Idk..
It looks to be something with his particular setup, if you look at my dyno chart, power starts falling off smoothly, then picks back up a bit once the IABs open.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:40 PM   #18
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Whens the Date for round#2 at TDC set?
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:50 PM   #19
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Damn I thought those mods would be good for at least 130-135WHP

But the age of the motor might be the x factor, or the dyno
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:55 PM   #20
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2point6 is cool... so far.
That DC header is killing you. I have a polished Bisi header for sale if you are interested. PM me.
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