Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

** Synthetic or Conventional Oil Write up **

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    ** Synthetic or Conventional Oil Write up **

    Ok so I searched and found many posts about what oil is best, so I started researching and here you go:

    One central argument between car enthusiasts and on Internet car
    forums alike is what oil is better for your car, synthetic or
    conventional. Before synthetic oils became available for regular
    automobiles, the argument centered solely on brand types and
    weight. But now, with the advent of these synthetics all over the
    market, what is truly the best choice for your engine? Let’s
    explore both of these worlds to find out.

    Conventional oil is rated according to a SAE system. This scale
    is used so that you know what type of oil is best for your car
    given the environmental conditions (temperature, city driving,
    etc.) of where you live. The first number, for example on 10W30
    motor oil, is 10 followed by a “W”. This “W” indicates that the
    number before it is the viscosity rating of the oil. The lower
    this number, the better the oil is for colder climates. The
    higher the number, the better it is for hotter driving
    conditions.

    Synthetic oils, on the other hand (before their commercial
    release) were used in many military vehicles and fighter jets.
    Airlines also use synthetics in their engines. The synthetic oil
    has been designed not to break down as quickly and can tolerate
    extremities in temperature and weather (hot to cold).

    One of the major differences between conventional and synthetic
    oils is that synthetics are treated with more additives that
    protect your engine for a longer amount of time before you have
    to change it. And, while we don’t want to get into all the
    molecular chemistry involved in the making of these oils, we
    should mention that they also last longer in hotter conditions
    and won’t “gel” in colder ones, like conventional oil. In other
    words, synthetics have more additives, which greatly protect the
    car from viscosity breakdown. They are designed to withstand
    temperature extremes. It may be safe to say that extreme driving
    conditions call for the use of synthetics.

    On the financial side of the matter, synthetics cost a whole lot
    more; up to three or four times as much as regular conventional
    oil. But, the wonderful thing is that you don’t have to change
    your oil every 3,000 miles; recommended with conventional oil
    use. In fact, you may not have to change it until well after
    25,000 and up to 50,000 miles as long as the oil filter is
    changed every 10,000 miles. So, the cost at first might scare
    consumers away, but the long-term benefits of synthetic oil use
    are substantial.

    However, you will still have to be responsible for your car’s
    maintenance check-up every 3,000 miles or so. With regular
    oil-changes, you are automatically checking over the car for
    other problems (or if you don’t an inspection mechanic does). It
    might help you find a problem that could be dealt with, that
    could’ve gone unchecked. Also, you’ll want to check the synthetic
    oil every now and then to be sure that it isn’t contaminated
    and/or that there isn’t any moisture build-up.

    With normal everyday driving, perhaps conventional oils work best
    for you. You aren’t driving in extreme conditions and you swear
    allegiance to regular oil. That may be fine. Synthetic oil cannot
    really offer you anything that conventional oil cannot under
    normal operating conditions. However, the definition of extreme
    driving states that if you do a lot of short driving (two to
    twenty miles) daily, it’s hard on your car. And, specialists
    agree that this constitutes extreme driving due to the faster
    breakdown of the structure of conventional oil.

    Another major reason that many are choosing the synthetic route
    is that it contains fewer impurities; impurities that can cause
    your engine harm, perhaps to the point of premature engine wear.
    With conventional oil, there’s no way to totally rid, filter or
    clean the impurities from the natural elements. That’s another
    reason why synthetic oils do not have to be changed as much even
    in extreme driving conditions.

    You’ll want to be careful; however, if you do decide that you
    want to give synthetic oils a try. If you’ve been driving your
    1983 Ford Thunderbird for years using 10W30, you may not want to
    switch using your conventional oil brand.

    Conventional oils have solvents that stick to gaskets and seals
    and often cause them to swell a certain way. These gaskets and
    seals have been used to the same oil for years and the switch to
    any other type of oil (whether it is to a different conventional
    oil brand, or an upgrade to a synthetic) may be harmful. The oil
    you change (or upgrade to) will also have solvents and additives,
    different from the original. So in other terms, the changing of
    oils could result in oil leaks and/or a once small oil leak
    becoming bigger due to the reaction the seals and gaskets will
    have to the change (not because of the oil itself). If you think
    that this might be the case for you (i.e. if you have an older
    car using conventional oil), it’s recommended that you not try
    synthetic oil until you have an engine (or new car) with
    relatively virgin gaskets and seals that will be able to
    acclimate much more easily to the chemical changes of the newer
    type of oil.

    It’s easy to see that that fanfare for one or the other is an
    argument that has really been explored. It’s best for you to
    decide what will fit your personal needs. If you have an older
    car, you may want to wait until you upgrade. However, if you have
    a newer car, the benefits of synthetic oils are easily seen.
    Again, it’s solely dependent upon you and the conditions where
    you drive. Synthetics are shown to provide their best protection
    above 250 degrees Fahrenheit. Most people do not drive their cars
    this hot. However, many do drive in cities, where driving times
    are considered to be more of a “stop-and-go” nature, which may be
    considered “extreme” in many circumstances. When the time comes
    for you to make a decision, at least you’ll be informed of the
    differences of each.

    Source included: http://choosetoprosper.com/walker-engine-oils.html
    Last edited by Fr0z3N; 08-17-2006, 07:15 PM.
    Originally posted by deevergote
    I'd eat a baby for free. I'm hungry, dammit!

    #2
    Good info, thanks!

    I've been using Mobile1 full syn for a while now, and I'm very happy with it. I do advise checking the oil level at every other gas filling though; as synthetic tends to burn off clearly, and you might not notice your oil getting low until its to late.

    - Zipcreature
    Awesome!


    CB7. F22A. 5spd. CB7. Exedy. Chromoly. AEM. DCSports. Apexi. Progress Group. AGX. Suspension Techniques. Viberant. Goodridge. Facebook

    Comment


      #3
      Yeah and always check the oil when buying a used car, my friend luke found this out the hard way and seized the engine. I think this should be stickied as I went through 15 pages of posts like "should I use synthetic or wut guyz?" Now I need a quart of Oil and that was my main reason to look into this, my manual recommends 5W10 so I guess that's what I'll be going with since I only need a quart and I have no intention of changing all the oil yet.
      Originally posted by deevergote
      I'd eat a baby for free. I'm hungry, dammit!

      Comment


        #4
        I have always used Valvoline High Mileage Full-Synthetic. Was recommended by my family's mechanic. He uses it in his 97 TT Supra with over 90k on it and it still flies. Later

        Comment


          #5
          It is a very well thought out and informative post.

          If you provide some good additional informational links in your original post, backing up your statements, I will sticky it for you.

          That way people can read on their own and learn more about the subject, which will give them better tools to decide which is best for them.

          I switched to synthetic recently just to try it after using conventional for 213,000 miles (routine changes of course). The engine seems to run a little smoother, although I do lose more between changes.

          I imagine some of it burns off, but I have had a small leak from the front of the oil pan gasket for a few years now, and I would also notice a slightly bigger puddle after the car sat for a week or so.

          Keep an eye on the level though, and for the most part you won't have to worry about consuming or leaking extra. You should check the oil regularly anyway.

          Comment


            #6
            I've used conventional all my cb7's life running castrol, although I switched to the blend cuz it was on sale lol..

            I really dunno much difference or if it matters but at stop lights the SHUDDER isn't AS BAD, so I dunno if its the oil.

            I do my changes every 2.5-3k regardless.

            On my other car that runs on syn, it has a small leak so I dunno about the statement of 'swelling up stuff, etc'.
            hahahahah

            Comment


              #7
              People are still debating which oil to use?


              "You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
              "the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
              "Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -Starchland

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by starchland
                People are still debating which oil to use?

                People will always be debating which oil to use, because the best oil to use depends on what your priorities are.

                Plus, there is a lot of misinformation out there.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Updated first post with source.

                  Also while I was looking into it more I found this too.

                  Of course, high-viscosity oils don’t flow well at low temperatures. In the old days, guys living in cold climates put in a thinner oil for the winter with a "W" or cold temperature-viscosity rating. Although they poured better at low temperatures, straight-viscosity "W" oils, in turn, didn’t do a good job of protecting high-performance engines once they reached normal operating temperatures, so they weren’t recommended for sustained high-speed driving. The oil industry developed "all-season" multiviscosity oils to solve the problem, but some of the early products didn’t hold up under heavy-duty operating conditions, tainting the reputation of multiviscosity lubricants among many Car Crafters to this day.

                  Yet today’s modern oils are vastly improved over those of 20 years ago. For oils that meet the current "SJ" service designation, viscosity breakdown is no longer a significant problem, thanks to modern formulation technologies and viscosity enhancers. Auto manufacturers have also redesigned their engines for tighter clearances and instituted precision machining techniques that take advantage of thinner oil to deliver improved fuel economy through reduced friction.

                  Like the OEMs, racers have discovered that friction reductions plus precision tight clearances yield greater efficiency and more power. Racers also know that most engine wear occurs at start-up, so it’s critical that engine parts receive proper lubrication as soon as possible--hence the need for an initially thinner, so-called "winter" viscosity. Today, few racers run a single-viscosity motor oil except nitro-burners. According to 76 Lubricants, most NASCAR teams use the really thin stuff during qualifying, moving up to 20W-50 during the long race (although it’s rumored some teams may use the extreme cold-weather thin oils all the time, but don’t want to admit to their latest performance "trick").

                  Synthetic oils, pioneered in the ’70s by Mobil and now available from most major oil companies, take the all-season, multiviscosity approach to the outer limits. Unlike traditional mineral oils that are produced by distillation and further refining of existing crude oil stock, synthetic lubricants are made through chemical reactions. These new oils aren’t synthetic or artificial in the sense that they’re manufactured out of whole cloth--they still have the same natural ingredients found in "real" oil. But in a synthetic lubricant, these ingredients are recombined like a Lego set to yield synthesized-hydrocarbon molecular chains with desirable characteristics and uniformity not found in even the highest-quality traditional motor oils. Typically, the best synthetic oils use a combination of up to three different synthetic base fluids--polyalphaolefin (PAO), synthetic esters, and alkylated aromatics.

                  Because a synthetic oil’s molecules are much more consistent in size and shape, they are better able to withstand extreme engine temperatures. By contrast, the unstable molecules in conventional oil can easily vaporize or oxidize in extreme heat. Mobil 1 synthetic is said to be capable of protecting engines "at well over 400 degrees F"; in the real world, most racers have no problem running synthetics up to 290 degrees F under prolonged use, but they get really jumpy when a conventional exceeds 270 degrees F.

                  Because a synthetic oil is chemically produced, there are no contaminants in the oil. By contrast, conventional oils contain small amounts of sulfur, wax, and asphaltic material that can promote detonation as well as varnish and sludge buildup. With no wax, synthetics will flow at much lower temperatures than conventional oils. In fact, synthetic oils are now available with viscosity ratings as low as 0W-30, as in Mobil 1’s new Tri-Synthetic blend or Castrol Formula SLX. These oils flow more than seven times faster than a conventional 5W-30 motor oil during initial start-up, yet at normal operating temperatures act like a regular Grade 30 oil.

                  An 0W-30 synthetic oil is capable of pumping easily at -62 degrees F and flowing at even lower temperatures. Conventional oils are essentially frozen solid at that temperature, so there’s simply no conventional equivalent to this new grade. There are 5W-30 conventional and synthetic oils, but even here, the synthetic has a real-world advantage: Mobil 1’s 5W-30 will pump at -58-degrees F, compared to about -35-degrees F for a conventional oil.

                  But claims and talk are cheap, so Car Craft had Westech Performance run some of the new Mobil 1 0W-30 in Ford’s prototype 392 small-block stroker crate engine. The Mobil 1 was compared to the generic (and recommended for this engine) 20W-50 factory-fill conventional oil, as well as 10W-30 conventional oil. All tests began with the oil temperature stabilized at 210 degrees F. The engine ran from 3,300-6,200 rpm, and several runs were made for each oil to ensure repeatability.

                  In terms of peak numbers, we found that the engine gained nearly 7 hp with the thinner conventional oil, and was up nearly 10 hp with the synthetic. No peak torque gains were observed by changing from 20W-50 to 10W-30 conventional; however, the synthetic was up 15 lb-ft of torque at the peak. Looking at average numbers helps explain where the gains occurred--both the thinner conventional and synthetic oils broadened the torque and power bands overall, but the thin Mobil 1 showed the greatest improvement under 4,700 rpm, indicating that the thinner oil provides less initial drag for the engine to overcome.

                  However, thinner oil also translates to lower oil pressure: The 0W-30 oil developed 10 psi less than the baseline 20W-50. Only 46 psi was on tap at 6,200 rpm--kind of shaky as most gearheads like to see at least 10 psi per 1,000 rpm. Still, the engine ran OK, and the bearings looked fine on teardown, seemingly verifying synthetic manufacturers’ claims that their products’ greater shear strength more than makes up for lower viscosity. Is 10 hp and 15 lb-ft worth paying two to four times more for a quart of oil? Or the potential for extended engine life? You be the judge

                  SOURCES
                  76 Lubricants Co.
                  800/435-7761
                  http://www.tosco.com/internet_pub/re...y/lubes/3.html

                  Castrol Syntec
                  973/633-2200
                  www.castrol.com

                  Kendall Motor Oil
                  800/368-1267
                  www.kendallgt.com

                  Mobil Oil Corp.
                  800/662-4525
                  http://www.exxon.mobil.com/mobil1_ra...bout/why/index.

                  Pennzoil-Quaker State Co.
                  Pennzoil: 800/468-83
                  Quaker State: 800/BE
                  www.pennzoil.com
                  www.quakerstate.com

                  Red Line Synthetic Oil Corp.
                  800/624-7958
                  707/745-6100
                  www.redlineoil.com
                  Originally posted by deevergote
                  I'd eat a baby for free. I'm hungry, dammit!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    you can go a lil bit longer on synthetic oil, but 25-50,000 miles is just rediculous. whether u get the filter changed or not. the most we recommend at my work is 6000 miles b4 the next oil change with mobil1 oil. but i guess u never know.

                    ^^^ Please "Like" & Follow!^^^

                    IG - @WerdWerx

                    1990 Accord EX Coupe - Click Here

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Assuming cost is not a factor, synthetic oil is better in every aspect. End of story.


                      "You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
                      "the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
                      "Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -Starchland

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I use Castrol GTX high mileage or their anti-sludge...this is a result of seeing first hand want penzoil does to an engine. Before that I used valvoline. I prefer Castrol.

                        In response to the first posts...some things to keep in mind.

                        Synthetic is known more for it's molecular composition than it's additives. You need to go into the molecular stuff to get synthetic. Synthetic is man made and not composed of organic material (conv. oil is). Conventional oil degrades faster because of that. Synthetic oils molecules are smaller...they fit in tighter spaces easier.

                        "Normal driving conditions" are not normal...they are lab constants. What we consider normal everyday driving is considered extreme conditions. So synthetic will do a better job of protecting your engine than conventional.

                        I disagree with the longevity claim about synthetic. Studies I have seen rate synthetic oil protective capabilities good to about 15k I believe. I am still trying to find the link to the study.

                        As to the matter of seals. If your seals have swollen, they are weak and need to be replaced. If your seals are cracked they are weak and leak and need to be replaced. If your seals have oil building up on them, then you have thick particulates floating in your oil, clogging other orifaces. This is not good for your engine. Do proper maintenance, take care of your car and replace your seals and put in synthetic or put in conv. and just replace it more often.

                        It will not ruin your seals like conv. oil will, thus, your seals will last much longer, saving you money in the long run. Also because you can go longer with synthetic, you will most likely spend the same if not less when using it compared to conv. But you must replace your oil filter more frequently than you change your synthetic oil.
                        ____

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Found the link to the tests

                          He's re-doing the mobile 1 as the first time it was done with a brand new engine. To show better accuracy he figured the engine should be broken in as it was in the second test.

                          http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

                          to get to the tests...look on the left side of the page...there are two tiny white boxes with pluses in them, the one that says
                          Related links

                          click that one, there you will find all you need

                          ____

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The main man from spoon has some suggestions on oil and oil changing, tranny oil changes for your honda...

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCbdTO97bA

                            on the stairs, she grabs my arm, says whats up,
                            where you been, is something wrong?
                            i try to just smile, and say everything’s fine.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I'm driving with Kendall 5W-50 and I've never lost a drop

                              Your car is faster, I'm the better driver

                              Greetz Erwin
                              My last ride

                              Shakes and Fidget - The Game




                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X