Legend Brake Swaps... things you ought to know.

[usc]

see attached image:

[usc]

last part

[uncle_el]

great article!

[Prez808]

Nice! I see I "inspired" you. lol

I also suppose the best brake upgrade is the one that's available from Honda: 91-96 wagon/ Accord V-6 11.1 inch front discs!

with some braided stainless lines, hawk hps pads, and slotted rotors this might be the best braking package for the buck

[usc]

Originally posted by Prez808
Nice! I see I "inspired" you. lol

I also suppose the best brake upgrade is the one that's available from Honda: 91-96 wagon/ Accord V-6 11.1 inch front discs!

with some braided stainless lines, hawk hps pads, and slotted rotors this might be the best braking package for the buck

well, that's assuming the 11.1-in rotors are sufficient for the car as well. problem with hybridizing parts is that most mechanics won't touch it since there's a liability issue. so once you decide to do some aftermarket work, you better hope you have a knowledgeable mechanic, or you yourself know how to tinker with the darn things.

the wagon setup still leaves you with the P.I.T.A. hub-over-rotors.

[usc]

oh, there are plenty of mechanics out there with the "know-how" to service hybridized brakes. the problem is if they're an establishment of sort, they'd have to warranty their work; and usually by having non-stock parts (or parts intended for your specific car), they're just opening themselves up for potential law-suits. it's what we typically call: CYA. (cover your @$$)

don't put yourself in situations when you could then be held liable because when people sue, they sue EVERY-frickin'-ONE.

[usc]

well, i'm under the assumption that california is the most litigious state in the union. we probably have 90% of all the lawyers in the country here.

but nah, individuals typically won't do the suing around here. it's if the vehicle gets involved in the accident and when insurance companies decide to crack down and deny claims. then you would see the potential for a big legal battle.

so most shops will simply wave you on by and not have to open up Pandora's box. of course 9/10 you most likely won't have any issues. but i imagine that it only takes 1 bad experience to screw you up.

oh, just FYI, signing waivers isn't 100% lawyer proof. (which i find absurd but what can you do.)

[Prez808]

So whats involved in doing a rotor over hub conversion?

5th gen wagons should have rotor over hub, right?

I've checked with Honduh, and the Brake Master Cylinder is the same on at least all 4th gen cars.

There's someone on honda tech I believe who has such a conversion. (Although probably still has hub over rotor) He autocrosses his h22a accord, and claims to not yet have warping issues. Race tested.. Sounds good to me

[wesselerp]

HEY USC....

what if i were to have mounted them on the correct sides, left on left, and right on right. Lets say that problem of bleeding was taken care off before they were mounted on the spindle itself using a 2x4. and holding it upside down. Would you consider this a relevent solution to that problem? Even though that still leaves us with the proportioning valve and M.C?? Give me some input. Thanks.

Phil

[usc]

sure. if you can properly bleed the legend calipers before mounting them, then in theory, it should be safe(r) (than mounting them backwards). you'll just have to always remove the calipers and bleed them that way from then on.

should also consider whether or not you're planning to keep the car forever. might make the car more difficult to sell later with this setup, unless you swap it back to stock calipers.

[aero]

Fizzbob... What you want is the acura CL 2.3 swap. Go to www.accordinglydone.com go into teh stop drop and roll forum, and read the sticky about rotor over hub conversion complete. Its the same size as stock, just rotor over hub.

[OEMaccord]

There are many valid points in this article, but I would just like to add some things. The European 6th gen Accord Type-Rs use Legend Calipers which are mounted in the front of the knuckle. Honda flips the Legend caliper from the factory. It may not be as efficient as having them on the trailing edge, but IMO the clamping power between the 2 setups may not differ significantly(speculation), therefore I guess Honda deemed that it was safe enough to put Legend calipers backwards on Accord Type-Rs for the European market.

Note: I have compared UKDM Type-R calipers with USDM Legend calipers and they are identical.

[usc]

Originally posted by OEMaccord
There are many valid points in this article, but I would just like to add some things. The European 6th gen Accord Type-Rs use Legend Calipers which are mounted in the front of the knuckle. Honda flips the Legend caliper from the factory. It may not be as efficient as having them on the trailing edge, but IMO the clamping power between the 2 setups may not differ significantly(speculation), therefore I guess Honda deemed that it was safe enough to put Legend calipers backwards on Accord Type-Rs for the European market.

Note: I have compared UKDM Type-R calipers with USDM Legend calipers and they are identical.

this is something that's difficult for me to accept unless i see pictures of both side-by-side, and to know it is genuine Honda Type-R calipers. reason being i can't imagine Honda would have a car in production having the bleeder valve on the bottom of the caliper, making it extremely difficult to bleed properly. that is a liability issue that no manufacturer would (or should) be stupid enough to place upon itself. that's just a freebie lawsuit waiting to happen.

i'm not trying to ruffle feathers, it just doesn't make sense and at least for *me*, i need to see proof: pictures, part numbers, etc... before believing it.

[OEMaccord]

Sorry I meant flipped as in putting the right caliper on the left side and vice versa. So the bleeder screw is still pointing up.

This is a pic of the UKDM ATR caliper, knuckle, rotor.

[usc]

okay, then my next question, which you vaguely alluded to but as i'm seeking confirmation is:

i assume the ATR caliper is also dual-piston. now what sizes are the pistons? if the pistons are different sizes, then in reference to that photo you posted, is the smaller piston on top?

[OEMaccord]

I believe the smaller one is on top, not 100% sure, but Ill find out when I change pads next week. I rebuilt the caliper with Legend seals so the pistons as well as the caliper are the same.

[usc]

Originally posted by OEMaccord
I believe the smaller one is on top, not 100% sure, but Ill find out when I change pads next week. I rebuilt the caliper with Legend seals so the pistons as well as the caliper are the same.

if the smaller one is on top, then they are NOT interchangeable. what most likely happened is to save on the cost of parts, the seals and the pistons are interchangeable. (i wouldn't be surprised if ALL honda 40mm piston and 36mm piston parts are interchangeable).

anyhow, if my suspicions are correct, then what i've posted thus far for the legend caliper is still true. you have ATR calipers, where the internals may be interchangeable, but the caliper as a whole is not.

[OEMaccord]

Looks like I was wrong, I found a pic of my calipers and this is the passenger side caliper(Left Legend caliper). So the top piston is the bigger one on a 6th gen ATR.



Here is also a pic of the part # on top of an ATR caliper.



note: The 2 pictures are not of the same caliper.

[usc]

... alright.

couple of things that throw me off:

1) the last 2 pictures you posted are on the same server but the first pic you posted is on another server.

2) if i follow your 2nd set of pics (the one that shows the calipers and pistons), by following the way the brake lines are, then the top photo should be the driver's side, not the passenger side. because the bleeder valve is on the side where the brake line is pointed. therefore, the smaller piston is up top, right next to the bleeder valve.

going by the assumptions made from the photos, the ATR and legend calipers are different. (perhaps only in the location of the bleeder valves).

[OEMaccord]

One is my work webspace and the other is my personal school webspace. I work at school therefore .ufl.edu in both urls.

Anyways I'll just take pictures of the caliper next week when I take them off next.