United 93

[owequitit]

owequitit, I'll make this quick.. but from the 5 frames that the government has released to the public of what it is hitting the Pentagon, that sure as hell doesn't look like a 747 to me.

Unless they have powers like Inspector Gadget.. definitely not a 747 in those 5 frames.

It was a 757, which is significantly smaller than a 747.

Here is a link to the 747:

Boeing 747

The 747-400 is heavier than older models, but the overall length and height are the same. The older 747s have a slightly shorter wingspan due to the winglets on the -400 (upward turned wing at the tips).

skubydobdo is also very correct.

The planes that hit the towers:

Boeing 767:






The Pentagon and the crash in PA:





THIS IS A 747!!!

[rebels]

57,285 U.S. gal (216,840 L)
211 ft 5 in (64.4 m) - Width
231 ft 10 in (70.6 m) - Length..

747's must make neat and tidy holes and no big explosions when they crash. Interesting..

[owequitit]

57,285 U.S. gal (216,840 L)
211 ft 5 in (64.4 m) - Width
231 ft 10 in (70.6 m) - Length..

747's must make neat and tidy holes and no big explosions when they crash. Interesting..

Yes, quite...

Especially when you have the wrong airplane...

And a 747 weighs almost 4 times as much as a 757...

Please see my above post for a detailed description.

[skubydobdo]

owequitit, i've been to St. Maarten there in that pic. If you check airliners.net and look for st. maarten pics you will see a shot from the window of an AA 757 onto maho beach looking right at the beach bar. I took it!!!! off topic i know

edit-found the pic

[rebels]

So you're still saying thats a 747 in the 5 frames? Wow, I must have a really fucked up resolution if I can't see ANY details of an airplane what so ever there.

If you compare sizes of things in the background, or even the size of the wall on the Pentagon, you'll see there is no comparison of a plane to whatever it was that supposedly hit it.

[owequitit]

So you're still saying thats a 747 in the 5 frames? Wow, I must have a really fucked up resolution if I can't see ANY details of an airplane what so ever there.

If you compare sizes of things in the background, or even the size of the wall on the Pentagon, you'll see there is no comparison of a plane to whatever it was that supposedly hit it.

Wow! Are you really that stupid????

Please re read the posts.

The Pentagon is 77 feet tall. The 757(not 747) sitting on the ground with it's gear down (let me spell it out for you: this makes it taller!) is 44 feet, or just about 1/2 the height of the Pentagon.... Remove the landing gear, and it is at least a few feet shorter.

Ironic, that the object approaching the Pentagon is about 1/2 the height of the wall, including the tail.

Once again:

757 (the plane that actually hit the Pentagon):



The 747 (the plane that didn't hit the Pentagon, but that you claim did):




Not only is it wider (wingspan is +87 feet), longer (+76 feet) it has an upper deck and 4 engines...and carries an additional 52,216 gallons of jet fuel...

Oh, and weighs a little more than 3.5 times as much at maximum takeoff weight (just under 1 million pounds).

That is like comparing your IS300 to an Excursion.

[rebels]

Ok, are you that FUCKING STUPID? Read through my posts in this thread? Did I say ANYWHERE in this thread that a plane hit it? I was contradicting your quotes to saying a plane DIDN'T hit the Pentagon.

I got my planes mixed up, in which when you posted the information up; I pasted that when it's SMALLER than the plane you claim hit the Pentagon.

Just in general, if you really believe that is a plane in the 5 frames of video.. keep thinking what you want because it's still a joke to me.

Please note the sizes of the holes in the Pentagon and the exterior damage. Putting 2 and 2 together? I don't think so..

[owequitit]

Ok, are you that FUCKING STUPID? Read through my posts in this thread? Did I say ANYWHERE in this thread that a plane hit it? I was contradicting your quotes to saying a plane DIDN'T hit the Pentagon.

I got my planes mixed up, in which when you posted the information up; I pasted that when it's SMALLER than the plane you claim hit the Pentagon.

Just in general, if you really believe that is a plane in the 5 frames of video.. keep thinking what you want because it's still a joke to me.

Please note the sizes of the holes in the Pentagon and the exterior damage. Putting 2 and 2 together? I don't think so..

You too wiz bang love genious.

I do believe it, and I can substantiate it, because the holes match. The math lines up, the debris lines up, the physics line up, the structural reports line up, the witness testimony lines up, the ATC tapes line up.

All you people have to counter that are a few grainy photographs and 5 frames of picture that are so grainy, you can't even see detail on the building.

Half of you have no idea how many planes there were, and the other half can't get the size of the hole straight, yet you are informed enough to have discovered the massive coverup...

Keep on keeping on dude. Maybe someday the rest of us will be as enlightened as you.

I like your ES300 by the way. Nice car.

[owequitit]

owequitit, i've been to St. Maarten there in that pic. If you check airliners.net and look for st. maarten pics you will see a shot from the window of an AA 757 onto maho beach looking right at the beach bar. I took it!!!! off topic i know

edit-found the pic

I love the pics of St Maarten. I have a ton of them. It is funny how there are so many people on the beach like WTF! That has got to be loud too. Even at idle they are probably pretty loud that close.

I will fly there some day.

Thanks for sharing the pick.

[phatdoughnut]

Anything can be true, wether you have facts or not, because we are just speculating and guessing. They just need to show us the video once and for all.

[owequitit]

Anything can be true, wether you have facts or not, because we are just speculating and guessing. They just need to show us the video once and for all.

The video has been released. I provided a link to it earlier. It looks a little like the 5 frames, only clearer, and not jumpy. You can fairly readily tell that the plane is about half the height, but it is hard to see due to the reflection on the plane and the speed that it approaches.


Here is a link I found that speaks of more confiscated video that is clear and shows all but will not be released.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/160506giantpsyop.htm

Not sure why, but time will probably tell.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

Here is another one that corroborates what I have been soapboxing about.

He has actual pictures, documents everything, and even explains little stuff that can make people think it is a hoax, such as camera angle and distance.

Those 3 spools that every one was amazed didn't get hit? They are 80 feet away from the building.

I highly suggest everyone who is really looking for truth read the second link. Just the pictures are pretty clear.

He explains everything from the hole dimensions and structural damage to the light poles, debris field, approach angle, off site damage, radar tapes, maneuver performed etc etc etc... Oh yeah, there are tons of pictures there too. He actually explains the camera angle and in most cases the photographer is credited. And diagrams, and the math equations to get those diagrams, so you can verify them if you are up to it. Short sweet and to the point. Oh yeah, all the evidence supports all the other evidence.

[bracersi]

The fact of the matter is no one knows what actually happend. The only things people know is only exactly what the government wanted you to know. I saw the video and personally I wouldn't call that a plane IMO. Jets breaking the sound barrier are fairly recognizable. I do have to say it looks a lot like a missle though. But then again I wasn't there.....so who knows...

What I do know is that outside investigations of 911 where not permitted by the government which is in the first time in history that such a thing has been done....usually outside investigations are welcome. It was a in house job and kept extremely private. I don't see why such a move was made. Also the president refused to testify in front of the 911 comission.....I would find that odd unless someone had something to hide. Even after Condi rice got a dick in her ass for not doing her job she got promoted???? She sure did get bush out of hot water with 911 comission, I am wondering if that is why she is still in the white house. Where I come from if you didn't do your job you got fired. Yet she is still there.

Evidence can always be tamperd with but human reactions usually are the revealers of intentions. Why is everything being made such a secret if no one has anything to hide. Certain evidence is kept really secret while other stuff is thrown away even when people want to examine it.

[owequitit]

The fact of the matter is no one knows what actually happend. The only things people know is only exactly what the government wanted you to know. I saw the video and personally I wouldn't call that a plane IMO. Jets breaking the sound barrier are fairly recognizable. I do have to say it looks a lot like a missle though. But then again I wasn't there.....so who knows...

What I do know is that outside investigations of 911 where not permitted by the government which is in the first time in history that such a thing has been done....usually outside investigations are welcome. It was a in house job and kept extremely private. I don't see why such a move was made. Also the president refused to testify in front of the 911 comission.....I would find that odd unless someone had something to hide. Even after Condi rice got a dick in her ass for not doing her job she got promoted???? She sure did get bush out of hot water with 911 comission, I am wondering if that is why she is still in the white house. Where I come from if you didn't do your job you got fired. Yet she is still there.

Evidence can always be tamperd with but human reactions usually are the revealers of intentions. Why is everything being made such a secret if no one has anything to hide. Certain evidence is kept really secret while other stuff is thrown away even when people want to examine it.

Go back and check my links. Most of them were independent people. Certain information isn't going to open to the public because:

1) it is an ongoing criminal investigation. A regular crash investigation can take YEARS to get all of the questions answered. Those pieces of evidence are not usually released until the conclusion is found either. That is with no evidence of wrong doing. Add an entire criminal dimension to that, and who knows how long it would take.

2) The highly sensitive nature of everything surrounding the Pentagon. As a former military person I though you would understand that in many cases sensitive stuff is sensitive for a reason, not because someone is getting their jollies off.

I agree, that they are hiding some information, but there are a million logical explanations for it other than a conspiracy.

Most of the evidence shown WAS gathered by people on scene. Yet they show everything and still people pass judgement with "they weren't there," or if that fails, "I wasn't there."

Sure it could potentially be doctored, but I don't believe that to be the case because everything from more than one source lines up. If everything was on the Pentagon website, OK, that is a legitimate concern, but many of these pictures were taken by different people in different locations in short order after the crash.

Here is another link to something by the same guy.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/video.html

Here is his main site with literally TONS of stuff. This guy has been working for awhile...

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

Link to the FEMA Performance report (tons of pictures):

http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf

Link to the 9-11 Commission report:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch9.pdf

Here is some info and links to the Purdue University Physics/Video simulation:

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/cgvlab/papers/popescu/popescuCAD05.pdf#search='Purdue%20Pentagon%20Crash %20simulation'

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/

I am trying to find an actual file version of the video, but there are not readily available links to it.

If anyone can find it, I would appreciate that. Otherwise I will look later this weekend.

[bracersi]

So everything you said is really cute and long and all but you have yet to address my questions. The president won't testify in front of a commision that he put together because the senate required it... wouldn't even release all the evidence....not even close to a qaurter of it to congress or the commision for that fact. I believe in sensitive info....but also believe in the government working together to keep all branches in check. I wouldnt trust one branch along....hell....I wouldn't even trust any branch together. But we know how the white house deals with secret information....look how they dealt with aids running there mouth to the press with CIA identity....that is just one example of conflict of intrest, or hypocracy....however you want to view it. But really you have it all figured out. You have seen all the links and videos and you have it figured. I could argue every last one of these details to the end but it dosn't mean shit. Like it came down to what I said before. You know nothing more then what the government told you.....and that is all you will ever know.

[phatdoughnut]

went back and couldnt find the video.