September 11, 2001

[kamaccord]

Have any of you viewed this website Physics911.net ? If not, view it and post your comments.

[jacobuchanan140]

some of that is pretty interesting but i dont think im buying the whole conspiracy deal

[owequitit]

The conspiracy theory is a fallacy. We covered this already.

Search for Pentagon threads.

Just a couple of things to already blow their story away.

1) There WAS wing damage along the facade of the building. It DID coincide with the wingspan of a 757, so the claims that it wasn't there are false. They are looking at poor angles, to make it appear as though there isn't anything there. They also neglect, angle and distance.

They also neglect that the strongest part of the airplane is actually the "wing box" which is formed in the area where the wing spars and fuselage structure mate. This box is pretty much inboard of the engines, which means it runs from inside the left engine, to inside the right engine. Coincidentally, the entrance hole, in addition to the 20' hole of the fuselage, had damage to the side in the approximate location where the wingbox would have been.

Also, do not neglect the fact that the concrete structure of the Pentagon would have mostly destroyed any structure of an airplane almost instantaneously on impact. They are after all made of aluminum that is in some cases only marginally thicker than that used in a soda can.

2) the entrance hole in the side of the Pentagon measured over 20' in diameter, coincidentally, what you would expect to see caused by the fuselage of a 757.

3) They claim that the engine parts inside were planted because the parts didn't belong to a Pratt & Whitney PW2037 or PW2040 which are the two Pratt & Whitney engines available on a 757.

Unfortunately, what they neglected to consider was the fact that Rolls-Royce also offers the RB211 for use on the 757. The vast majority of American Airlines 757s are indeed powered by the Rolls-Royce engine. The particular plane that hit the Pentagon had Rolls-Royce engines. Those engine parts WERE identifiable as parts from an RB211-535G or H.

Why would we expect to see parts from a Pratt & Whitney powered airplane, when the crash involved a Rolls-Royce powered airplane?

American has 30 or so Pratt & Whitney powered 757s that were inherited from the TWA merger, but one of these was NOT flying the route, so it is inconsequential.

4) You never would have seen a cruise missle impact the Pentagon from the angle and distance that you did. They are smaller than a car, and moving at 600MPH, you wouldn't have even seen a flash.

5) Whatever did hit the Pentagon was roughly 1/2 the height of the building. Ironically, a 757 with its landing gear retracted is about 1/2 the height of the Pentagon, which is itself over 70' tall.

How is a 2' tall cruise missle going to appear 1/2 the height of a 70+' building, when it is at an angle of between 30-50 degrees from seeing it directly from the side, and it is at least several thousand feet from the impact point?

That's right. It isn't.

6) How do you explain the trail of debris and damage that was all seen by eyewitnesses as it occurred, leading directly to the crash site? A lightpole, would probably destroy a cruise missle all by itself, yet there were many torn down, as well as aircraft debris, and other evidence of a 757.

7) How do you explain the eyewitness testimony of COMMERCIAL AIRLINE pilots who not only heard, but saw the aircraft?

Trust me, a commercial airline pilot knows a 757. I can take you to the airport and prove it if you don't believe me.

8) How do you explain the fact that the damage to the structure of the Pentagon was consistent with something very large hitting the building, and then breaking apart and decelerating as it penetrated?

9) How do you contrast that to the fact that a cruise missle would not have breached the wall unless it exploded slightly before impact, and then the damaged caused by force would have been in a symetrical and predictable pattern, yet it was actually in a pattern not consistent with a charge?

10) How do you explain the several tons of identifiable 757 wreckage inside the Pentagon, and the human remains?

The funny thing about conspiracy theories is that they thrive and function on partial truths that appear plausible to the average joe, because they know the average Joe doesn't know better, and won't seek to learn whether or not it is true.

Half the people fabricating these "theories" apparently don't know what they are talking about. So then we must ask, do they actually have REAL scientific credentials, or are they self proclaimed, or did they get their qualifications from some institution of printed degrees and accreditations?

They use all of these elaborate schemes to "investigate" the "truth", when in fact, they are focusing on stuff they clearly aren't experts about, neglecting half of the variables that need to be considered, and then presenting a half baked cake supported by icing and toothpicks that falls apart if you look at it sideways.

I have been able to prove EVERY conspiracy theory for 9-11 wrong, just based on the aviation end of the deal, with what I know right off the top of my head. What are the odds anything else is going to hold water?

All the "evidence" and "truth" to blow my story apart, yet all I need to sink theirs are a couple of well known BASIC aviation facts and some common sense...

Why are their more unanswered question with their story than with the other story if theirs is supposedly more reliable?

It's garbage.

The rant wasn't aimed at you specifically, I just get really pissed off when people tell me I am an idiot because I don't agree with them, when I clearly know more than they do.

[texasvtak]

...im right...

lolbushdidit

[owequitit]

lolbushdidit

Yeah I know. I just can't see it though. It must be a conspiracy of the mind...

Besides. Bush did everything.

[sackingz123]

"bush knock the towers....tell the truth nikka".....

[According2Aaron]

Bush was also responsible for the Nazi Holocaust and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

[texasvtak]

Thank you for seeing that!!! It was Bush that killed Archduke Ferdinand and started world war 1!!!!!!

[owequitit]

"bush knock the towers....tell the truth nikka".....

LOL!

LOL!

LOL!

Yeah...

Oh no! Some misinformed, overpaid hip hop artist made a song. It must be true.

[owequitit]

Thank you for seeing that!!! It was Bush that killed Archduke Ferdinand and started world war 1!!!!!!

Whatever dude! His badassness started way back when he started the Crusades. Then he was resurrected as a Texan, and now he has come to finish them...

[sackingz123]

LOL!

LOL!

LOL!

Yeah...

Oh no! Some misinformed, overpaid hip hop artist made a song. It must be true.

overpaid???

mos def, jadakiss, immortal technique..
u are uninformed about true hiphop sir...

[deevergote]

Bush killed Jesus. Just ask Mel Gibson. He was there documenting the whole thing!



Seriously though, in terms of conspiracy theories, I agree that the whole "what we think happened didn't really happen" angle is pretty weak (for the reasons stated above). However, that doesn't mean that everything we've been told is 100% true.

Hijacked planes hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. TRUE.

The hijackers were terrorists working with Al-Qaeda. Most likely true.

The US government had NO idea that an attack was imminent. Probably false.


How much the US government knew (and who knew) will never be known by the general public. I seriously doubt that they were as clueless as they say, and any "miscommunication" is a simple "whoops"-type explanation... it's easy to say "some unknown person screwed up" and let it go. Who knew is a mystery. Why they allowed it to occur (or even facilitated it...) is a mystery. We can only speculate.
Granted, that speculation fuels the conspiracy fires quite well... The Bush family's connection to the Bin Laden family, the convenient troubles with the oil-producing nations, the convenient rise of oil prices, Osama Bin Laden's US-supplied training, his convenient disappearance, daddy Bush's old enemy Saddam being such a sitting duck... I could go on forever. Does any of it mean anything? Who knows! There certainly isn't enough information to say "Bush did it", but I think it's naive to assume that the American government had no involvement in it.
Wartime economy is generally strong. We're entering into a recession, and keeping the economy strengthened with a war (as well as opening the floodgates for government spending) is a great way to keep Bush from being a "recession president". The war is good for Bush. The decline in the economy from the HUGE tech boom in the 90s is NOT good for Bush (how many people do you know with computer degrees that aren't working with computers?)


My rant is getting pretty unfocused. Through coincidence, speculation, and clever manipulation of evidence, ANYTHING can be "proven". Hell, I bet I could do enough of it to pin the whole deal on Maple!

[MikeW]

I could care less who did what to what buildings, because, whats done is done. WHy try to figure what it was, who did it or why? Anywho, I would just like to chime in on Scott and Mike's fine job on supporting arguments and how they cover all bases and pretty much round out the whole thing. Especially Scott, he's always been one to answer all questions, and prove, or disprove all points. Job well done guys. You Rock!!

[growguy]

Oh no! Some misinformed, overpaid hip hop artist made a song. It must be true.

lots of hiphop artists out there don't ride on twenty fowz or get phat stacks for a weak video. i believe you sir are 'misinformed', about hip hop artists anyways. immortal technique is really political in his songs.

[owequitit]

lots of hiphop artists out there don't ride on twenty fowz or get phat stacks for a weak video. i believe you sir are 'misinformed', about hip hop artists anyways. immortal technique is really political in his songs.

Your right I am.

I hate hip hop. It no longer has any style or class of any kind. There are a few good artists in that genre that I still respect, but they are far and few between.

I suck at music, and I could write half the crap that they sell that goes platinum.

What happened to the soul, and the romance? Where did the ACTUAL creative artists like BB King, Chuck Berry and Marvin Gaye go? Where are the people like Boyz II Men? You may not like their music, but you do have to admit that they had actual real talent.

Don't feel too bad though. It wasn't really only leveled at hip hop, although I did make it sound that way.

99.9% of Hollywood is overpaid

99.9% of the media is overpaid

99.9% of music artists in general are overpaid

What we have is a disconnected sliver of reality, that takes it upon themselves to tell the rest of the world how to act, behave, and believe, when most of them have no idea what it is like to be the rest of the world. Then when we don't do, think or believe what they say, we are just "small minded" ignorant people.

I mean think about it. Paris Hilton as an icon? In high school by any other name, she would have been the slut that everyone slept with so they could get it wet the first time.

Take away the money and the fame, and what do you have? A semi cute, underweight easy slut.

Besides, the original intent of my post still stands. Just because a hip hop artist wrote a song about it, doesn't give it any more or any less credibility.