Do you think Acura is on the same tier as the other luxury manufacturer like Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc? Same thing with Infiniti.
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Acura, Honda's Luxury Division
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Acura does not hold prestige, IMO, the way much more established companies, like BMW, Mercedes etc hold. Those are companies with historic background, successful motorsports reputation and renowned for their performance, technology and build quality.
Acura, as great a company as it is, still holds strong Honda roots, which is not a bad thing at all, but due to the close ties with Honda, who is more popular amongst cheaper, more efficient cars, it's hard to think of Acuras as so much more upscale.
Why spend $40-50k on a TL when you can buy an Accord? That's the way I look at it. Why spend the extra for an MDX when I can buy a Pilot? Why buy a 1.7 EL when I can get a Civic? Why an Integra when I can get a Prelude?
Acura doesn't make a single car that I would last after and go "I've wanted one of these for years", or make me feel like I'm driving a more up market car. It still has the look and feel of a Honda.
When you're in a BMW or a Merc, they just have that atmosphere about them.
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Originally posted by crazymikey View PostAcura does not hold prestige, IMO, the way much more established companies, like BMW, Mercedes etc hold. Those are companies with historic background, successful motorsports reputation and renowned for their performance, technology and build quality.
Acura, as great a company as it is, still holds strong Honda roots, which is not a bad thing at all, but due to the close ties with Honda, who is more popular amongst cheaper, more efficient cars, it's hard to think of Acuras as so much more upscale.
Why spend $40-50k on a TL when you can buy an Accord? That's the way I look at it. Why spend the extra for an MDX when I can buy a Pilot? Why buy a 1.7 EL when I can get a Civic? Why an Integra when I can get a Prelude?
Acura doesn't make a single car that I would last after and go "I've wanted one of these for years", or make me feel like I'm driving a more up market car. It still has the look and feel of a Honda.
When you're in a BMW or a Merc, they just have that atmosphere about them.
Does an accord have 300hp?
Does an accord have SH-AWD?
CMBS?
Blind spot monitering?
Does honda have a loaner car program for the times you do want your car serviced?
You will find that an equally equipped accord will run close to the price of the TL with less features
Acura wasen't rated #1 Customer Satisfaction by by J. D. Power and Associates 5 years in a row immdiatly following their release into the united states.
I'd rather say i drive a honda then an acura, which is why the cb7 is one of the last " honda's " i would ever buy
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acura
This thread interests me because other manufactures have the same setup. The one that comes to mind specifically is the infinity g-series.
Anyway the reason for honda / acura being the same is because until this year there was no such thing as acura in japan. Every honda built there had its reputation and people would buy them, not because they were labeled "luxury", but because they were luxurious and reliable.
I would also like to point out that you missed an important acura in your list, the NSX, if you don't think that is a performance minded car that outperforms a generic civic then what are you smoking?
Honda / Acura has had plans to completly step up the "luxury"/"performance" car game for a while, they have developed a ~400 hp v8, 500-550 hp v8, and a 550 hp v10 to be used in their acuras.
The problem is that they don't sell them LOL.
Another problem that honda has is that they are overly proud of the name honda, they build race engines, cars, and have racing teams that are under the lable of HONDA, not Acura. If you look at toyota, they are now entering lexus in superGT.
You left off infinity form your list too, and guess what nissan enters cars as nissan instead of infinity.
The times this double standard aggravates me the most is watching top gear, they always end with the statement "its still only a honda". People tend to forget that honda has a DEEP racing and R&D history, and an impressive record in it to boot.
If I was to get an acura, other then the nsx (yes I know it is labeled as a honda in japan), or an HSV(if it is ever sold LOL), I would get an 08 tl type s.
Sorry for the long post.
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The NSX is a Honda, no matter how many ways you look at it. That is why I did not mention it. Plus, when Acura was brought out, it was only for the North American market to sucker us gullible North Americans into thinking we're buying some sort of special fancy car for more money.
Hey, it worked for Toyota and Nissan, why not let Honda gouge us too?
Honestly, I have nothing against the upscale brands, because they all are nice cars. Gives a little more variety to the offering of Civics, Accords and Pilots out there.
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Point is invalid
Of course an nsx is a honda. Honda owns Acura, there is no way an acura could ever not be a honda, even if it wasn't ever sold with a honda badge.
Acura, lexus and infinity were not made to gouge americans, they were made because americans are too stupid to realize that you have have a single company that sells economy cars, high end luxury cars, and top of the line sports cars.
For the longest time Nissan and Honda have stood by the names Nissan and Honda, and because they did that they now lack a "luxury heritage"
Just because the shawd 3.7L tl is sold as an acura in america, and as a shawd 3.7L honda inspire in japan does not mean they are trying to gouge money from americans. It means that if they tried to sell it as a honda in america, people would be holy shit, I'm not spending that much money on a beeping honda.
Hence Acura is born...
That is all it is, people being stupid and ignorant enough to need a separation.
All companies do it, and I mean alll
Mercadies has AMG
BMW had the M
Honda has Acura
Toyota has Lexus
Nissan has Infinity
GM has cadilac
Dodge with SRT
Ford Lincon
Lets be honest, when you see a stock 330i driving down the road your not that impressed, I always say to myself, its not an m3.
Maybe its just me but I don't really care if it has an h or an a on the hood as long as its a good car, infact I am more proud of the h than the A at this point in time.
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Originally posted by crazymikey View PostPlus, when Acura was brought out, it was only for the North American market to sucker us gullible North Americans into thinking we're buying some sort of special fancy car for more money.
Hey, it worked for Toyota and Nissan, why not let Honda gouge us too?
The article for that initial Japan test drive drew shocked responses from all the C/D guys, notably the quote "not even Mercedes-Benz can now afford to sit back and relax".
I have nothing more to say. Acura may not have the cachet that BMW, Mercedes, and even Lexus has, but the company likes to do it's own thing.
Which is why we love thee, Honda.
EDIT: And for the record, Infiniti and Lexus were actually Nissan and Toyota's responses to the Acura brand! Both made their debut with the 1989 Infiniti Q45 and 1989 Lexus LS400, respectively. One of those became as big of a hit as the Legend, and the other, well...didn't.Last edited by Nurega; 02-18-2011, 03:25 AM.Original-Owner 1991 Honda Accord
2005 Acura TSX 6MT
2010 Mazda Miata Grand Touring
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Originally posted by Ghetto_CB7 View PostJust because the shawd 3.7L tl is sold as an acura in america, and as a shawd 3.7L honda inspire in japan does not mean they are trying to gouge money from americans. It means that if they tried to sell it as a honda in america, people would be holy shit, I'm not spending that much money on a beeping honda.
Hence Acura is born...
That is all it is, people being stupid and ignorant enough to need a separation.
Nurega, that's an awesome bit of history lesson there. It's true, all those upscale brands did debut around 1989-1990.
The thing I like about these upscale brands, is that their cars are based on the existing vehicles, only dressed up and with lots more options. Underneath all the fancy bells and whistles, you can keep comfort in your purchase knowing that you've got the reliability and practicality of a Honda/Nissan/Toyota. You just spent the extra to get a much nicer one.Last edited by crazymikey; 02-18-2011, 05:30 AM.
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Not all of them are just gussied up versions of the lower models. Really just the low end models and the trucks.
Acura has no US market cars that are rebadged US Hondas. Canada has the CSX/EL, which is a rebadged Civic, but that's it.
Yes, the MDX is essentially a Pilot (though not a complete rebadge)
The TSX is based on the Accord of other markets, one that we don't get here (which is how most of the luxury brands worked originally...) The TL and RL are completely independent vehicles, aside from common underpinnings (which ALL makers use.)
The old TL and CL were very much Accords (which is odd, since the TL replaced the Vigor, and the CL replaced the Legend Coupe...) The CL is actually one of the only Japanese luxury models that never existed in Japan. There is no Honda equivalent, aside from the very closely related 6th gen Accord Coupe.
Lexus... the ES is a Camry, BARELY facelifted. Their hybrid thing is basically a tC. All of their trucks are directly related to a Toyota model. As with Acura, their mid and top cars are pretty much independent... the GS and the LS.
Infiniti... The G has always been based on a non-NorthAmerican model... first the Primera, then the Skyline. The I is a pathetic rebadge of the Maxima, almost as lame as the Lexus ES... The M and Q are Japanese Nissans not brought to the US (as per other Japanese luxury brands... same principle.)
One thing I just read about Inifiniti is their performance line.. IPL. The IPL G37 is go to make over 340hp.
Honestly, I sorta feel the same way about Acura being below the others. ALL the Japanese makes have sought to reach the level of the Germans... The original Lexus LS was almost admittedly a near direct copy of a Mercedes Benz. Infiniti has always sought to capture BMW's sportiness. Acura is stuck in the middle... they seem to be chasing BMW's style to some extent (Honda admitted that the ZDX was modeled as a response to the BMW 5 Series Gran Turismo.) But with their FWD focus, and ever-growing line of SH-AWD vehicles (which have yet to be used for any REAL sporty vehicle... the new TL is potent, but a porker...) they almost seem to be chasing Audi... who has always been the 3rd string German luxury brand, even though they make fantastic cars (until the electrical problems occur...) Audi is the one German brand that does much the same as the Japanese... Being owned by VW since the 60s, most Audis are very closely related to VW models.
To me, what hurts Acura the most compared to the other 2 big Japanese luxury brands is the lack of real RWD offerings. To me, and to many other people, a car is neither truly luxurious or truly sporty unless it's RWD, or AWD added to a RWD platform (like the cars by BMW and Mercedes-Benz.)
The other issue is the lack of a V8. Acura's top model is the RL. A fantastic car with plenty of power. Very luxurious. But powered by a V6. Who cares if it makes more power than most of the Lexus and Infiniti V8s that were around until fairly recent times... it's still only a V6.
US makers are notorious for rebadging as well. Just about every Lincoln on the market right now is just a fancy Ford. The MKZ is essentially a Fusion (which is very much a Mazda6), and the MKS is essentially a Taurus SHO (maybe a base Taurus as well... I haven't really researched the Lincoln's engine options.) All FWD-based and touting V6s as their top powerplants. Hello Lincoln becoming like Acura...
Cadillac has done plenty of rebadging in the past, but one thing that I like is that the CTS (and STS) are a unique platform. I'm getting a CTS-V, and I know that I'm not getting some dolled up Chevy. It's unique to the brand, even if the engine and transmission are from a Corvette (that, of course, is a selling point to me! I could always choose the STS-V with the Cadillac-only supercharged Northstar... but repairing that could be pricey!)
Chrysler isn't even worth mentioning. They're like the Honda/Audi of the US luxury brands... but unlike those two import brands, Chrysler can't make a worthwhile car to save their lives. The only Chrysler worth buying is the 300, and that's really just a reanimated abortion. It's very much a revived, reskinned, retired E-Class with a Chrysler engine. At least the Hemi engine is half decent.
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Originally posted by crazymikey View PostWhy spend $40-50k on a TL
Is Acura up there with Mercedes, BMW, etc? No. Why? Because, as it has already been said, Acura has Honda roots. Acura = Honda. Always has, always will. Even if they somehow broke free of Honda and were their own division, people will forever associate them with Honda and/or "cheap japanese cars". Even if they are elegant, cheap, economic, etc.
I dont understand why they do it. We could name off all the rebadges all day long. Lexus and Toyota and Scion. Honda and Acura. Nissan and Infiniti. Ford, Mercury and Lincoln. Chevy, GMC, Buick, Cadillac, Pontiac, Saturn. Etc, etc, etc.
Domestics do it, too. Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra are I-D-E-N-T-I-C-A-L. Trust me. I know this. Ive done the research as well. Base model of each, with identical options, identical motors...differetn prices. The GMC is more. Same with the Excalade/Tahoe/Yukon. Aside from aesthetics, you can get them with identical features. Things like woodgrain and minor interior details will vary but you can get them as identical as possible and the prices will all be different. And more than a few hundred dollars, too. The GMC will be a few grand more than the Tahoe and the Escalade will be a few, if not 5+ more grand than the GMC. It's "quality", "craftsmanship". Blah, blah, blah. They're the same thing. And to a certain degree, that's true, but the real truth is that they've duped American into thinking that "Even if you buy the less-equipped Escalade, you're still getting better than the best-equipped Tahoe." America, the joke is on you.
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Originally posted by JarrettIs there a goal you're trying to accomplish besides looking dope as hell?
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The TL starts at 36k, and tops out at 43k.
No car is completely independent anymore. Even Rolls Royce and Bentley, two of the ULTIMATE luxury brands, are heavily based on BMW (with Rolls being owned by BMW, and Bentley now owned by VW). Porsche is owned by VW, and the new Cayenne will be sharing the Touraeg platform.
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What a tragic waste.
KeepinItClean | EnviousFilms | NoBigDeal | YET2BSCENE | .· ` ' / ·. | click here.
Originally posted by JarrettIs there a goal you're trying to accomplish besides looking dope as hell?
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