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Steering Alignment

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    #1

    Steering Alignment

    For the past 3 years, for as long as I have owned the car, its steering has pulled to the left slightly. I had an alignment performed in 2005 when I first bought her, which really did not solve the problem at all. However, this was at a Belle Tire. I'm not sure if that's where my problem lies or what (I have heard poor reviews for many of their locations).

    Why is it so hard to find a shop out there that can do alignments properly? Also, should I be weary when selecting a shop that can do the job the right way? Is it really just a hit-or-miss situation when I'm selecting a shop to do it for me? Is it worth it to spend the extra $40 to have the dealership perform the alignment?

    Next, if my problem isn't alignment (hypothetically), what issues might it be? Has anyone here stumbled upon any greater problems that they were told needed to be fixed when they went in to have an alignment done?

    I just want to be able to go in, have this done, and have a little peace of mind that I won't have to have it done again by a second shop simply because they can't do the job properly (or can't figure out what's wrong)!
    Last edited by BBuncky2; 10-15-2008, 02:38 PM.
    Tags: alignment, steering alignment
    #2
    What did the alignment reveal re camber and caster angles? Has the car ever been in an accident? Does swapping the front wheels side to side affect the pull?

    I've had an ongoing issue with a steering pull (to left) that I haven't yet been able able to cure. The car had accident damage from the previous owner resulting in unequal camber and caster. This was fixed by me modifying components, camber and caster are both now equal to 0.1° side to side, and the pull persists (and has so through several sets of tyres and swapping tyres side to side).

    I can make the pull less obvious by increasing caster on the left side (1° more caster on the left side), but this causes a torque steer to the right under acceleration and a lesser pull to the left under brakes. With this unequal caster, at certain speeds the pull is not evident if the power being applied to the road is equal to the rolling resistance of the tyres, but this means that on very light throttle a slight left pull still exists while at higher speeds it isn't obvious (more power at slightly higher throttle needed for higher speeds).

    I've recently noticed that the steering rack doesn't seem to be perfectly positioned in the chassis, with the left side of the rack being a bit further back than the right side, meaning that the left tie rod is angled more forward than the right tie rod. Theoretically this difference in tie rod angles will mean that forces generated at the contact patches will be fed into the rack with some difference in geometric leverage, so when X force from the left contact patch meets X force from the right side contact patch in the steering rack, that even if the generated forces are both X they will be leveraged into the steering differently and this might create a pull.

    This weekends project is to investigate how hard it might be to move the left side of the rack forward / right side backward to create a properly laterally oriented steering rack. I have high hopes for this, but might be disappointed...
    Regards from Oz,
    John.

    Comment

      #3
      yeah mine drifts slightly to the left as well. But i'm lowered on Coilovers and have about 1.1 degrees of negative camber which I'm kinda frustrated about and I even have those anchor type camber kits. I suppose they helped out a little bit, but I'm still getting tire wear on the inner part of the tire. I'd say i'm lowered a good 2 inches all the way around.

      But I would suggest looking at your steering rack and see if you have any torn or ripped boots. Are you leaking any PS fluid? Mine is in horrible shape, so I think that's party to blame. It sometimes tracks straight and then on the highway is when it drifts to the left almost always.

      So idk if my camber is to blame for that or if my steering rack is the culprit.
      Last edited by Losiracer2; 10-16-2008, 12:22 AM.

      member's ride thread
      93' EX Coupe H22A w/ P2T4 Sir 5spd 191whp 155 wtq
      99' Lexus LS400 157k VVTi V8 gets up & goes...new DD
      91 Accord SE 176k
      97' Honda Odyssey 199k miles...$485 spare van for my parents

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by Losiracer2 View Post
        yeah mine drifts slightly to the left as well. But i'm lowered on Coilovers and have about 1.1 degrees of negative camber which I'm kinda frustrated about and I even have those anchor type camber kits. I suppose they helped out a little bit, but I'm still getting tire wear on the inner part of the tire.

        But I would suggest looking at your steering rack and see if you have any torn or ripped boots. Are you leaking any PS fluid? Mine is in horrible shape, so I think that's party to blame. It sometimes tracks straight and then on the highway is when it drifts to the left almost always.

        So idk if my camber is to blame for that or if my steering rack is the culprit.
        Get the BB6 Upper control arm...

        I got my alignment done and the steering wheel slowly drifted back to where it is now.
        Going straight my steering wheel is to the right, under heavy braking it drifts to either side
        Last edited by CB7Man; 10-16-2008, 12:01 AM.
        Your man for wiring solutions!
        CB7Man's Coupe H22 Swap
        CB7Man's Sedan Resurrected From The Dead

        Comment

          #5
          So I'm not the only one with a seemingly unalignable CB. :P
          I got it to the point it doesn't eat tires (basically systamatically replacing parts, starting with the easy/cheap stuff), but I've given up now. Too much time and money spent.
          Best of luck to you guys.
          Opal Metallic Green '92 LX 2dr manual, 181k miles, '94 prelude VTEC wheels for summer (steelies with snow tires for winter), Omni-power struts/springs, and other junk

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by CB7Man View Post
            Get the BB6 Upper control arm...

            I got my alignment done and the steering wheel slowly drifted back to where it is now.
            Going straight my steering wheel is to the right, under heavy braking it drifts to either side
            why? is it longer than the CB7 arms, thereby pushing the wheel more straight towards the ground? if so I know there's a black BB6 waiting for me at the JY!

            member's ride thread
            93' EX Coupe H22A w/ P2T4 Sir 5spd 191whp 155 wtq
            99' Lexus LS400 157k VVTi V8 gets up & goes...new DD
            91 Accord SE 176k
            97' Honda Odyssey 199k miles...$485 spare van for my parents

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by CB7Man View Post
              Get the BB6 Upper control arm...

              I got my alignment done and the steering wheel slowly drifted back to where it is now.
              Going straight my steering wheel is to the right, under heavy braking it drifts to either side
              With my CB7, I'd adjust the caster to be equal side to side and the pull would become less for a few days (but still pulling left due to underlying issue with steering rack, I think), then it would suddenly / spontaneously start pulling left just as badly as before. Now I think I have the underlying issue with the rack position causing a predominant left pull (as above), but also I think the front subframe was moving, causing the caster on one side to change each time it did, and thus for the degree of pull to change.

              When I checked the subframe attachment bolts they were tightish, but not really very tight. I tightened them up very tight (also greasing the threads and under the bolt heads so tightening torque wasn't being 'wasted' overcoming - or not overcoming - friction in the threads / under the bolt heads), and this changable degree of pull stopped happening, i.e. the pull now remained constant in strength (fingers crossed, it's only been a week or so).

              I'd also check the tightness of the rear subframe bolts (the subframe to which the steering rack, LCAs, rear engine mount and ARB are attached), because if this subframe moves then not only caster but also camber may be affected (i.e. if the subframe moves laterally as well as longitudinally).

              My experience suggests that if the pull is X in a straight line, but X+ under braking and X- when accelerating (or vice versa), then the problem is likely to be unequal caster angles (though I can see why significantly unequal camber could possibly also cause this; because camber has some affect on the effective scrub radius, and some pulls are caused by the relationship between degree of caster / degree of scrub radius side to side).

              Pulling to either side under heavy braking could be caused by road cambers, or maybe soft / shot rubber bushes, or bad ball joints (allowing caster to change under braking).
              Last edited by johnl; 10-16-2008, 01:55 AM.
              Regards from Oz,
              John.

              Comment

                #8
                Mine drifts to the right

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by helofast View Post
                  Mine drifts to the right
                  The same principles apply...
                  Regards from Oz,
                  John.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Wow johnl, you gave me some ideas to muse over.
                    I'm thinking I'll have my mechanic go over the subframe bolts (his pnuematic impact gun is stronger than my electric). I know he had checked the mounting bolts for the control arms and such, but not the subframes. That's really all thats left that could be shifting around. We'll see.
                    Opal Metallic Green '92 LX 2dr manual, 181k miles, '94 prelude VTEC wheels for summer (steelies with snow tires for winter), Omni-power struts/springs, and other junk

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Otto View Post
                      Wow johnl, you gave me some ideas to muse over.
                      I'm thinking I'll have my mechanic go over the subframe bolts (his pnuematic impact gun is stronger than my electric). I know he had checked the mounting bolts for the control arms and such, but not the subframes. That's really all thats left that could be shifting around. We'll see.
                      There are only four bolts holding the front subframe, the bolts pass through holes in the subframe that are much larger than the diameter of these bolts, and there is no other form of positive location (i.e. it's only the clamping force of the four bolts preventing the subframe from shifting under load). The front subframe in particular is subject to a lot of force under heavy braking and when a wheel hits a significant bump, so those bolts need to be very tight.

                      If you have unequal caster then you can loosen the bolts and shift the subframe until you get equal caster, e.g. if you have say more caster on the left side then you can move the left side of the subframe back, or the right side of the subframe foeward. You do want equal caster, and as much as you can get on both sides (as long as it's equal).
                      Last edited by johnl; 10-16-2008, 05:51 PM.
                      Regards from Oz,
                      John.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        my pull was lessened by re balancing my tires and rotation.
                        I <3 G60.

                        0.5mm Oversized Stainless valves and bronze guides available. Pm me please.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by helofast View Post
                          Mine drifts to the right
                          x2 but thinks i just need an alignment!

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by helofast View Post
                            Mine drifts to the right
                            Its suppose to to just slightly.
                            wat?

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by C91BLX7 View Post
                              Its suppose to to just slightly.
                              supposed to goto the left to compensate for the crown in the road design.
                              I <3 G60.

                              0.5mm Oversized Stainless valves and bronze guides available. Pm me please.

                              Comment

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