Serious Question B series

[turboAccordHSF]

I've been on this topic years back, and learned or was told that the B series (B16, B18) was a too small of an engine to push our cb7s?..I go against swaps all day everyday I don't like the whole swap idea , I'm more of a guy that like to make nothing beat something ...in other words the F22A SOHC is overlooked in most parts , but has deep creepy potential on some parts .

Simple question , why wouldn't a B16A1 vtec or a B18C vtec or B20 vtec be good for out cb7 chassis ?

And don give me that "oh because it doesn't fit!" Crap, Or why not swap in a H instead?

Why B series? , cheap swap easier to find , and a lot of aftermarket/performance parts made . So far in my whole life I've seen only 1 cb7 with a B18B non vtec, sadly the car didn't hit the streets or track the owner decided to part it out since he lost interest. If a B series can push 140+ HP and pull a Integra sedan or coupe as heavy as our cb7 around why the whole too small engine ordeal?...

Don't know how much the engines actually weight but if a 1.6 makes around 143 WHP vs a F22 at 113 WHP then wouldn't a B16 be an actual good idea of a swap??

But like I said its just a question that has always been stuck on my head and i can't seem to shake it off so I'm seeking real and reasonable answers, plus I'm no Einstein but didn't it make.sense?

Ninja edit: I know my WHP numbers aren't accurate so please just bare with me here, and I might be over doing it with the number example

[deevergote]

This has been covered many times on this site, actually.

The B series would require EXTENSIVE modification to work properly in the CB. Custom wiring, fuel lines, coolant lines, axles, mounts, ECU... and if you wanted to use a B/D transmission, you'd need to hack up your car's floorboard to accommodate the shift rods (since our cars use cables, not rods.) The reason nobody does it is that it would cost far too much money for too little benefit.


They would move the car just fine. An F18A was actually available in other markets. However, the lack of torque would make a 143whp B16A in a CB be just about as fast as a 115whp F22A.

Also, Integras and Civics are at least 300lbs lighter than the lightest stock CB7.

[Tippey764]

Anyone who says a smaller motor isn't powerfull enough to move a CB is just stupid

a CR-V is heavier than an accord and has a smaller motor ( 2.0 liter )

And some CB's came with 1.8 liter motors.

The main problem with the swap is its more complicated. Why waste your time swapping a B series when you can swap an H for cheaper and easier? No one cares about if its " unique " because at the end of the day its still a stock honda 4 cylinder motor from another car.

[Leung]

aren't the transmissions in the civics also rod base not cables like ours? that may play a role in not being able to swap in a B series engine.

I swear there is an F18 used in Japan but i forget what year Accord.

*dang Deev and Tippey beat me to it.

[turboAccordHSF]

This has been covered many times on this site, actually.

The B series would require EXTENSIVE modification to work properly in the CB. Custom wiring, fuel lines, coolant lines, axles, mounts, ECU... and if you wanted to use a B/D transmission, you'd need to hack up your car's floorboard to accommodate the shift rods (since our cars use cables, not rods.) The reason nobody does it is that it would cost far too much money for too little benefit.


They would move the car just fine. An F18A was actually available in other markets. However, the lack of torque would make a 143whp B16A in a CB be just about as fast as a 115whp F22A.

Also, Integras and Civics are at least 300lbs lighter than the lightest stock CB7.

This ! Actually sounds familiar, I do remember you telling me this years back, and I do see where you going, why completely modify your engine bay for a B series if you can always jump to a K series, and a B or D series tranny is short gearing?

And one other thing that stood out was torque output just like you stated , I've noticed the torque in these B series are sadly low, compared to the F22A single it might be a problem. Though your right about the weight of these dam civics , especially hatches now a days stripped to the bone. Lack of torque but they sure can rev to high heavens!..

This pretty much just answered my question....myth busted

[13k]

This ! Actually sounds familiar, I do remember you telling me this years back, and I do see where you going, why completely modify your engine bay for a B series if you can always jump to a K series, and a B or D series tranny is short gearing?

And one other thing that stood out was torque output just like you stated , I've noticed the torque in these B series are sadly low, compared to the F22A single it might be a problem. Though your right about the weight of these dam civics , especially hatches now a days stripped to the bone. Lack of torque but they sure can rev to high heavens!..

This pretty much just answered my question....myth busted

Not quite true. You can fit a K in there, but AKAIK the K and B have different mounts. So K does not equal B.

[SOHC-FTW]

Problem with a B16 is they make no tq a D series will produce more i've seen it.
Also you can get the b17gsr or b18 ls cable transmissions.An LSV in a cb would run pretty good, but for the money and fab work you could have a monster of an F!One more thing they put D series in teg's over seas bet those were fast ha!

[Tippey764]

^^^ those " cable " transmissions are not cable shifting

They are a cable clutch. As in the system does not have any hydraulics.

They still use shift rods.

[deevergote]

^^^ those " cable " transmissions are not cable shifting

They are a cable clutch. As in the system does not have any hydraulics.

They still use shift rods.

Correct.

Not quite true. You can fit a K in there, but AKAIK the K and B have different mounts. So K does not equal B.

Also correct. The K and B series are two COMPLETELY different engines. The K series was just more popular in Civics and Integras before the older Accords because there was more of a demand for it. There are more serious tuners that are willing to drop big bucks that work with those cars than with Accords.

Jumping from a B swap to a K swap would be just as difficult as jumping straight from the F to a K. In fact, I believe it would be harder, as the K series uses a transmission shifted by cables just like the H/F... so all that work to convert to rods would have to be undone to swap in a K (unless you used an adapter to use a B/D transmission... I'm sure they exist.)

B/D series transmissions do have shorter gear options than H/F transmissions, and they're also rumored to be quite a bit stronger. Sadly, they are not practical swaps.

You CAN get an adapter to use the H/F trans with a B/D motor...



also, why does everyone always complain about torque? Who wants a ton of torque sent to the front wheels anyway? That just makes it hard to put the power to the ground. There's a reason why Honda has had great success with low-torque, low-displacement, high horsepower N/A motors. It's a formula that works. They just don't drag race them.
My 2500lb Fit, hauling 180lbs of me and about 100lbs of misc. junk (two spare wheels/tires, tools, random shit that I just never took out of my car...) can't get out of it's own way off the line with it's dinky L15A... but once I have that car moving and the RPMs up over 4k, I've been able to take Porsches in twisty sections of roads (granted, any Porsche is superior to my Fit, but I was the better driver... and the cars' abilities were close enough that my superior driving was enough to keep up with a newer 911, and overtake a Boxster.)

[Tippey764]

I highly doubt there is an adapter to use a b/d transmission on a K series

If you flipped the transmission around you would have 6 reverse gears and 1 forward gear with straight cut teeth.

[deevergote]

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting the K spins the other way...

[mtnbikaah]

If I had to choose between higher horsepower and higher torque I'd take torque.


(EDIT: I should've stated stock engine for stock engine...)


Torque gets you moving, horsepower keeps you moving.

[deevergote]

RWD, I'd agree. The car squats back on the rear wheels, putting all the weight on those wheels that are driving the car.

FWD... torque spins wheels. Especially with an open diff. The car squats back, lifting weight OFF the drive wheels... Plus, those wheels are for steering, and torque steer is annoying.

[Accrdwgnguy]

Why would you want a smaller displacement engine?

[deevergote]

The aftermarket available for the B series absolutely dwarfs that of the H or F series (then again, how many options do you need, when you have at least one option that works as you want... like the Bisimoto F22A header... we don't need 3 different ones that offer a 30hp gain... just one.)

Still, the K's aftermarket is huge and still growing, whereas the now-retired B series is shrinking.