Brake problems Stuck with a soft pedal.

[Timothy Watson]

I'm having another problem with my 92, It needed a master cylinder for inspection when I get it around two months ago. It helped and I acctually had brakes for around a week. Recently though the pedal is completly soft when I'm sitting in the car in park I can pump the pedal for an hour and it won't stiffen up a little. When I acctually go to apply the brakes the only resistance I feel I'm assuming is the spring(?) that keeps the pedal returning. The pedal will drop around 80% before it grabs and I'm had to utilize the e-brake in a couple of situations already to avoid rear ending someone. The car does not have abs, and as I said a new MC. The brakes (at the wheels) weren't bleed when the MC was installed, and I haven't been able to bleed them because the screws act like they will just snap in half if I apply any pressure. I really need help.

[deevergote]

The system needs to be bled. If the valves are shot, you may need to replace them... or replace the calipers. You HAVE to bleed your brakes when you replace your master cylinder. It's amazing that you have any pressure at all!

[Timothy Watson]

I wondered why they didn't and it's not much pressure to speak of, but it seems like If i try to turn the bleeder screws out they will only turn in half leaving me with half a stuck screw in the drums, or the calipers...

When the shop put on the MC they did bench bleed it, and the way they explained it the entire system didn't need to be bleed. I thought that it would have needed it just hadn't figured out how to do it with the bleeder screw situation and didn't want to pay a shop for hum-hauling around or eventually getting it done.

[deevergote]

Wow... a shop did that? I thought you were the one to install the MC, which would be an acceptable excuse for doing it improperly (if you had never done it before). The shop, on the other hand... hell, what they did is extremely dangerous, and they put your life at risk! It's highly likely that you could sue them for negligence and win.
Bench bleeding the MC is the correct way to do it, but the lines need to be bled at the wheels as well.

You're going to have to bleed the lines at the wheels. There's an order in which to do it, but I forget it at the moment. Hopefully someone else will chime in with that info. If the bleeder screws are stuck, you may have to remove them by force... and the calipers/drums may even need to be replaced. My rear drums were un-bleedable. I just converted to rear disc.

[oyajicool]

You start bleeding from the wheel farthest from the MC.

If MC is on left of the car, you go from right rear, left rear, right front and left front.

But, I've done this way as well as randomly. Worked both ways,,,,,

[Timothy Watson]

Okay, I will see if I can have backup drums or calipers ready when I go to do it, unless I could drill the old ones out I'll probably have to replace them. (and I could paint them first, and install/bleed them all at once anyway) Thank you, and will avoid that shop from now on...

[Timothy Watson]

UPDATE: Yesterday me and a friend replaced the rear wheel cylinders and bleed all the brakes. It is working alot better, I think I still need to replace the drums, rotors, pads, and shoes but having it work alot better for now is still awesome. Also adjusted the e-brake cable (it'll lock up now) So my friends I can now stop safely and prevent injury to me, my car, and others. Thank you all for the help.

[oyajicool]

Very Good

[Bad_dude]

UPDATE: Yesterday me and a friend replaced the rear wheel cylinders and bleed all the brakes. It is working alot better, I think I still need to replace the drums, rotors, pads, and shoes but having it work alot better for now is still awesome. Also adjusted the e-brake cable (it'll lock up now) So my friends I can now stop safely and prevent injury to me, my car, and others. Thank you all for the help.

Why did you have to adjust the e-brake cable? If your wheel cylinder was leaking, then you would need to replace the shoes as well since the fluid would have gotten on the friction material.
How long have you had your CB? I went from a Corolla to my CB over 4 years ago. Let me tell you, the brake pedal on the Corolla was way firmer than any CB with stock brake parts. This is why I don't want my wife to drive my CB as she won't be used to the brake pedal.

[Honda_Lady]

Why did you have to adjust the e-brake cable? If your wheel cylinder was leaking, then you would need to replace the shoes as well since the fluid would have gotten on the friction material.
How long have you had your CB? I went from a Corolla to my CB over 4 years ago. Let me tell you, the brake pedal on the Corolla was way firmer than any CB with stock brake parts. This is why I don't want my wife to drive my CB as she won't be used to the brake pedal.

He probably just wanted to make sure it was adjusted properly. His bleeder valves were frozen up, that's why he had to replace those parts.

OP glad that you got it fixed! I am glad that i have disk all around and don't have to worry about drums LOL

[MortsAccord]

OP: there's a way to loosen those stuck bleeder screws. Poor manson impact togun the rescue! In the future all you need is a can of say wd-40 a wrench/socket/rachet and something to strike the end of said tool with, preferably a hammer or larger wrench.

You soak it down in WD-40/pb. Take the socket/wrench and get it on there, hold pressure against the screw as if to loosen it and then start striking the end of the rachet/wrench with your hammer or large wrench. Easy does it though, a firm repeating strike is better than 1 huge impact. If you just keep working at it it'll come out. I've used this on my 97 honda, 99 Dakota and my 87 Crx with great success. Hell the Dakota had a rounded bleed screw where my dad tried an open end wrench so much a box end wrench would have slipped off without this technique. I just held my lil 8mm wrench on there and kept pb on the screw, while going tap tap tap tap tap on the end of the lil wrench. Broke it loose in a few minutes.

If you have a wire brush handy I suggest using it around the bleed screw and re-applying your penetrating lube.

[Timothy Watson]

Thank you all for the replies they might come in handy. after about 1 solid day of performance the pedal sank back to the floor again.

I tightened the e-brake cable because it had 19 clicks going up and wouldn't put but the slightest drag on the drums.

So I'm back with 75-80 percent pedal travel before braking begins, after braking begins still a soft pedal with little brakes actually being applied. It has a new MC less than two months and around 2k miles on it. The pads and rotors could be replaced (and will be soon)as well as the shoes in the back. adjustment of e-brake reverted back to not helping much drag starts at 3 clicks when dialed for 1. When I do feel the brakes (I have to holdem to the floor literally)the car seems to nosedive. I'm new to trouble shooting brake systems so here are a few questions.

1. Is it possible for the proportioning valve to stick/malfunction causing no fluid to make it to the rear?
1.a. Would that make it feel like I had no/soft pedal?

2. Would not having drained all of the older fluid affected performance of the brake system?

3. If I recall correctly is there a way to adjust the brake booster to kick in faster/have less travel in the pedal?

Thanks in advance for the replies, this is my DD (I've had her for 2 months) so it is of utmost importance to get her fixed asap.

[illinois_erik]

You start bleeding from the wheel farthest from the MC.

If MC is on left of the car, you go from right rear, left rear, right front and left front.

But, I've done this way as well as randomly. Worked both ways,,,,,

With the CB7 you bleed the RL then FR then RR then the FL..but yea just getting air out is key.

[illinois_erik]

Thank you all for the replies they might come in handy. after about 1 solid day of performance the pedal sank back to the floor again.

I tightened the e-brake cable because it had 19 clicks going up and wouldn't put but the slightest drag on the drums.

So I'm back with 75-80 percent pedal travel before braking begins, after braking begins still a soft pedal with little brakes actually being applied. It has a new MC less than two months and around 2k miles on it. The pads and rotors could be replaced (and will be soon)as well as the shoes in the back. adjustment of e-brake reverted back to not helping much drag starts at 3 clicks when dialed for 1. When I do feel the brakes (I have to holdem to the floor literally)the car seems to nosedive. I'm new to trouble shooting brake systems so here are a few questions.

1. Is it possible for the proportioning valve to stick/malfunction causing no fluid to make it to the rear?
1.a. Would that make it feel like I had no/soft pedal?

2. Would not having drained all of the older fluid affected performance of the brake system?

3. If I recall correctly is there a way to adjust the brake booster to kick in faster/have less travel in the pedal?

Thanks in advance for the replies, this is my DD (I've had her for 2 months) so it is of utmost importance to get her fixed asap.

1) Yes, clog, see #2
a-no, the little pressure youd have would be forced upon a restriction and make the pedal firmer.

2) Yes. Also if youre going to just now crack the bleeders, the fluids way past degraded, Mixing them is a little better I suppose. That old black nasty fluid is full of water rotting out any ferrous metal from the inside out, non ferrous metal will oxidise and seize, dissimilar metals touching will seize and corrode. (Youve seen this action already with the bleeders) so inside your lines and calipers will be this muky rusty sludge and a varnish on the caliper pistons. The rubber degrades. so on and so forth. So either, rebuild them or buy some reman's

3) Uhh I dunno.. But the issues youre having maybe the booster failing and/or a vacuum leak..on a side note with the car off and pumping the brakes does it firm up?? It should. Also when bleeding you and your helper must be in sync or you botch up the whole process. Pump 3 to 4 times and hold it, you dont have to he-man it to the floor...continue holding it, while the bleeder is cracked let the fluid come out like a good 4 or 5 oz or till you dont see bubbles in your line connected to the bleeder or when it stops making raspberries, if youre just using a drip pan (or till the nasty stuff is replaced by golden goodness)..anyway..helper is still on it.. cinche the bleeder back up..repeat the process 2-3 times per wheel. And make sure the brake fluid reservoir never goes empty or start over.

or if youre really wanting an easy way to do things is get some M10(fronts for sure..maybe brake cylinders too check) speed bleeders, they have them at Autozone. Theyre the shit. Then next time when you NEED to flush your system itll take you 10mins and the car wont even need to leave the ground.

[Timothy Watson]

Won't be able to afford speed bleeders, but will be trying to flush system soon.

would the "breathing" sound be a possible sign the booster is bad?

and as far as #3 I thought I recalled reading a post somewhere that said you could adjust the booster from the inside close to the brake pedal to make it kick in quicker.

thank you