F22a1-to-H22a1 swap

[mmaKush]

Hey all, I recently bought an h22a1 engine from tigerjapanese.com with the h-series tranny.

What I got was here:
http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/hond...on-92-95.html#

Except they sent me an H22A1 engine instead of an H22A engine.. I contacted customer support and they told me that there's no difference between A1 and A except the serial number.. Except there's a notable difference straight from the jump; the distributor on the A-series is internal and the A1-series is external. And also that the injector size could possibly be different?

Anyway, I got the H-series engine in, all the sensors except the VTEC sensor plugged up, and since it was originally an external distributor i just used an MSD Blaster Coil. I also removed power steering if that matters at all.

The engine will turn over, crank, fire, and start. But shortly after starting, the engine will sputter, backfire and die.. No idea why, I've tried three different ECU's, the new one I ordered which is tuned for the A-series engine, my chipped F-series ECU, and my mechanic's chipped ECU for his H22A-series engine.. None made a difference.

Help would be greatly appreciated. If you need any more information, don't hesitate to ask, I'd be more-than-welcome to provide as much info. as possible to diagnose this problem.

Maybe it could be a timing issue? I'm not sure.

[deevergote]

They sent you a USDM engine... interesting, considering they're a "JDM engine importer". Tiger is one of the WORST places you could've gone. I'll be surprised if that thing doesn't blow up in a week.
Since it's a USDM engine, it's highly likely that it has well over 100,000 miles on it, not the "35,000 miles" that JDM engines have. Not a big deal if it's healthy, though high-mileage H22As tend to burn oil due to wear on the difficult-to-service FRM sleeves.
The H22A1 is also only 190hp, unless it's an OBD2 model (which I assume you'd have mentioned, since there would be a conversion necessary...)

Don't say "A series"... that's the engine found in the 3rd generation Accord... VERY different from what we're using. If you have an ECU tuned for an A series, it could very easily do damage.
What part numbers are on the ECU? Your stock ECU was a PT3, if you had an F22A1 (that also cannot really be "chipped"... which makes me wonder what modifications you did to that... that should not have been used on the H22A1). The H22A1 should be using a P13 ECU form a 92-95 Prelude. Until it's running properly, you should not be using any other ECU. I assume your mechanic probably has a properly-modified P28 or P72 (if not, I would stop going to him...)



Honestly, considering the origin of this engine, it's entirely possible that there's damage. Tiger is well known to send damaged engines to their customers. Have you done a compression test? Did you replace the timing belt (you'd be stupid not to.)

[mmaKush]

P28 P13 P72 Accord Prelude F20B H22 H23 OBD1 VTEC Chipped ECU DOHC P14 computer is what my ECU is. No, I haven't done a compression test or replaced the timing belt.

And shouldnt' they send me another if the engine is damaged? It should have a 30-day warranty i'd imagine. and I hope it isn't have over 100k miles. The oil inside it was jet black.

I honestly have no idea why it won't run properly :/

[deevergote]

P28 P13 P72 Accord Prelude F20B H22 H23 OBD1 VTEC Chipped ECU DOHC P14 computer is what my ECU is. No, I haven't done a compression test or replaced the timing belt.

And shouldnt' they send me another if the engine is damaged? It should have a 30-day warranty i'd imagine. and I hope it isn't have over 100k miles. The oil inside it was jet black.

I honestly have no idea why it won't run properly :/

It's USDM. How many USDM cars from 92-95 do you know that have less than 100k miles? Japanese engines don't have numbers following the code (H22A, rather than H22A1), and European engines have different numbers. The North American models are H22A1 and H22A4. It may be Canadian, but that's really no different.
The oil was jet black... that should tell you the condition of the engine already. Would you think that would be an indication of an engine that was properly maintained?

30 day guarantee... with VERY strict stipulations. Changing the timing belt is always one of them (from any engine reseller.)
They're also a Canadian company, so they know it'd be far too costly for you to sue them (international lawsuits are a bitch.) That's why the Canadian engine sellers like Tiger and OsakaJDMmotors seem to send crap to US buyers... we can't do a damn thing about it, and in the 10+ years I've been in this game, I still see people buying from both regularly... and getting screwed.



So what is that ECU you have? It looks like you copied and pasted a generic scam ebay title...

P28 P13 P72 Accord Prelude F20B H22 H23 OBD1 VTEC Chipped ECU DOHC P14
Let's break it down:
P28 - Civic ECU... made for a 1.6L engine. ONLY good when modified and properly tuned for the engine it's running.
P13 - Prelude ECU. This is what you want.
P72 - Integra GSR ECU. Made for the B18C1. Like the P28, it's only good when modified and properly tuned. It should not be used otherwise.
Accord Prelude? That should be a red flag right there! There is no ECU for both the Accord and Prelude.
F20B That's an OBD2 JDM Accord engine. Both SOHC and DOHC varieties were made, with power ranging from 130hp to 200hp.
H22 - The P13 applies here.
H23 OBD1 - That's the H23A1 found in the US (only.)
VTEC There is no OBD1 VTEC H23... there is an OBD2 VTEC H23A in Japan, found in Accords. Nothing about the H23 applies to anything you are doing. Chipped ECU - Yeah... that's scary. Random chipped ECUs should be avoided.
DOHC - That's the H22A... H23A... H23A1... F22B... F20B... means NOTHING when talking about an ECU. The ECU doesn't care how many cams you have.
P14 - This is the H23A1 ECU... as said above, the H23 has NOTHING to do with your swap. At all.

So what ECU are you using?

[mmaKush]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180766832467...84.m1439.l2649

that's my ECU, and I had it tuned.

Ugh.. All I'm getting is bad news after bad news tomorrow I am calling Tiger again and bitching, lol..

What web site would you recommend to order engines from?

[deevergote]

www.hmotorsonline.com is the only one I would ever trust. I got mine from there in 2003, and beat the living piss out of it. It still runs fine. They're also located in California, so they're a US-based company.

Most likely, tiger will just laugh at you. There's not a damn thing you can do but bash them on the internet, and plenty of people have done that already! Do a search on this site alone, and you'll see plenty of horror stories. Their low prices will never cease to sucker people in. I nearly got suckered by Osaka (a similarly bad company) when I was shopping for my H22. Thankfully, a very unprofessional email from them swayed me, and I went with HMO.

That ECU on ebay doesn't even say what it is. True, most OBD1 ECUs that can be modified can essentially be made into whatever you want (A P06 can be turned into a P28 can be turned into an P72), but that's super shady that the dude doesn't say what it is! Was your ECU tuned for YOUR engine (I assume not, since your engine isn't even running properly yet), or for a random H22? That guy just slaps a basemap on there and says it's "right" for your engine. Not cool.

Find yourself a bone stock P13, and use that until the engine is in and running right. Then take that overpriced whateveritis to a real tuner and have them tune it properly. Until then, I wouldn't trust that "custom" ECU. Hell, if your engine was fine when you first started it, that ECU could've damaged it! A poor tune can turn a good engine into a grenade real fast.

[mmaKush]

Okay so basically what I do from here is find a real, barebones ECU from a 92-95 prelude and use it's ECU? God damn it, I basically wasted $2,000 for nothing.. :l oh well, live & learn right?

[deevergote]

As long as the engine isn't totally screwed, you could be alright. You probably paid far too much for what you have, but you'll be happy once it all works. I overpaid myself. I had a shop do my swap, and they halfassed EVERYTHING. Total cost, parts and labor, was approaching $5000. That was in 2003, granted... before CB7tuner existed... but still.

If the engine is healthy, you can make it run properly. Use a stock P13 until you get it right, as a chipped ECU presents far too many unknown variables. If you haven't replaced the timing belt and water pump, do that ASAP. Then you can be sure the valve timing is correct. Do a compression and leakdown test to ensure the cylinders are healthy. As long as there's no bad news there, you're in good shape.
Hang onto that chipped ECU, whatever it is (read the side of it... it's probably a P28) You'll be able to use it down the road, when you can get it properly tuned. Until then, I wouldn't use it.

[mmaKush]

Okay, thanks. My car actually isn't at a shop. It's in a garage sittin on jack stands. Idk how to do a leak down or compression test.

[Jarrett]

Okay so basically what I do from here is find a real, barebones ECU from a 92-95 prelude and use it's ECU? God damn it, I basically wasted $2,000 for nothing.. :l oh well, live & learn right?

Read what was written, not what you interpreted. An ECU for a '92-'95 Prelude could be any number of the three general types of ECUs with their own small differences amongst them. You want an OBD1 P13 ECU. In the US that's a '93-'95 Prelude VTEC. In Japan it's a '92-'95 Prelude VTEC. Be careful. Don't get screwed again.

[deevergote]

Okay, thanks. My car actually isn't at a shop. It's in a garage sittin on jack stands. Idk how to do a leak down or compression test.

Look it up. The compression test is easy enough. The tool is cheap at any autoparts store. To be honest, I don't know how to do a leakdown test myself... but instructions are out there. The compression test alone will tell you a lot.

So here's your to-do list:
Get a P13
Do a compression test
Replace the timing belt and water pump
Ensure your ignition timing is properly set.

If possible, get a distributor that matches your car's setup... if you have a 90-91, it has an internal coil, and you can use a distributor from a JDM H22A. If it's a 92-93, the coil is external, and the dizzy you have now should work. I'd avoid using aftermarket stuff for now. Don't make modifications or changes until it runs properly. That's a halfassed way of doing it, and it will introduce a ton of potential problems. Keep the variables at a minimum, and it'll be much easier to troubleshoot.

[TracieS]

There waranty is now joke to get by my cousin went through this. All the parts that were listed had to be replaced on the motor and the engine has to be checked out by a certified mechanic and it has to be put in the car by a certified shop.

[deevergote]

The warranty specifications from any engine reseller are so strict that it's almost impossible to make a claim without having SOMETHING that can be questioned. Most of the reputable shops, like HMO, will be lenient if the problem is clearly NOT due to faulty installation... but the international companies can laugh at you, because they know you have no recourse. An international lawsuit to recover $2000? Never. Sucker 30 people a year like that, and you have $60,000 free and clear for selling junk!

[mmaKush]

Well my car is a 91 but the engine is not. It had an external coil pack so I'd have to find another.

[Jarrett]

You'll need to reuse your existing F22A1 engine harness. Also, you can adapt the external coil H-series distributor to an internal with the internal components of your F22A distributor.