Ignition Timing

[Kev1990]

Hello I saw the DIY for adjusting the timing but what line do I line it up with the middle one on the flywheel or the two outers? And will the stock flywheel have these marks to set ignition timing properly or is there another way to do it with stock flywheel?

[Scolirk]

I believe you need a specialized tool to properly calibrate your firing sequence. At least that's what I've learned from my Wheeler Dealers marathon. In terms of the timing belt, there should be notched that need to be lined up when the belt is installed, and line up after a complete revolution of the wheels.

[Kev1990]

What I'm looking to do is adjust the ignition timing but I have another question too. If the cam timing is off can the ignition timing still be properly set? Or will it be affected.

[Kev1990]

Hmm so I just looked at my distributor it's turnt all the way towards the back. The last time I had the timing done was when the distributor was replaced 1-2 years ago. Could there be a reason why it's turnt all the way back? The car runs great has a bit of power idles normal.

[H311RA151N]

Set it to the 15* mark. The other two marks are +2* and -2*. Stock and replacement flywheels have the timing marks. Unless it's a cheap eBay flywheel or equivalent, then it may not. Which is unlikely.

Cam timing will always be right as long as the timing belt is installed properly and not a tooth or more off. If the timing belt was off even one tooth you would know it.

With the addition of adjustable cam gear(s), the ignition timing changes with the cam timing as the distributor is cam driven. How I have done it is I set the cam gear(s) to 0* then do the ignition timing. Then I adjust the cam gear(s) and that brings the ignition timing along with it so to speak. But unless you have an aftermarket cam gear you don't have to worry about this.

Just follow the DIY and you are good to go as long as your base idle is set correctly prior.

[Kev1990]

Thank you for the fast reply lol. The base idle is set correctly already but my question is could there be any reason why my mechanic has it so far advanced? As in turned towards the back/firewall like I said it runs great but I read that the distributor should be somewhat lined up to the middle right now it's sitting far back.

[H311RA151N]

Thank you for the fast reply lol. The base idle is set correctly already but my question is could there be any reason why my mechanic has it so far advanced? As in turned towards the back/firewall like I said it runs great but I read that the distributor should be somewhat lined up to the middle right now it's sitting far back.

You are very welcome.

No reason why it's so far advanced other than he did it incorrectly. If he did it to compensate for incorrectly putting the timing belt on a tooth off you would know it.

Typically one tooth off it will idle like normal and the exhaust will sound fine but cruise and WOT the car will feel like you've got no power and in most cases will hesitate and misfire. Two or three teeth and your bending valves, the car more than likely won't start, & you'll have no compression.

Since your car runs well you have nothing to worry about. Just set the ignition timing properly and enjoy the increased MPG.

[Kev1990]

Hello I just finished the timing without a timing light I centered the distributor like I read online set it right to the middle and it seems to have a better powerband through the whole rpms just not as much power taking off. Should I take a timing
Light eventually and check it? Because the car rides a lot better now transmission seems to shift smoother too.

[H311RA151N]

The ignition timing is a fixed setting as the three bolts that mount the distributor to the head hold it in place.

As for your other question I don't understand. The ignition timing is set. Your good to go.

[Kev1990]

The top part of the distributor I centered that part it seems to run fine at least it does I've had it up 6,500 rpms like 8 times since resetting it like it has more of a power band. No slight backfires when warming up anymore. Should I still get a timing light to confirm the correct setting?

[H311RA151N]

Missed the part where you said "without a timing light" It went through my mind as "with a timing light." As that's how it's done.

The only correct way to set the timing is with a timing light. You are likely closer than you were but your still off. Borrow a timing gun or whatever if you want to set the ignition timing properly.

[johnl]

Hello I just finished the timing without a timing light I centered the distributor like I read online set it right to the middle and it seems to have a better powerband through the whole rpms just not as much power taking off. Should I take a timing
Light eventually and check it? Because the car rides a lot better now transmission seems to shift smoother too.

You need to do it with a timing light. My understanding is that what you've done is only good enough to get the engine to run prior to adjusting the base timing correctly. Note that (in my understanding...) the ECU will try to adjust ignition timing to what it's maps tell it is the correct timing given all the sensor signals it may be getting at any given moment. If the base ignition timing is too far off it may not be able to do this as it's ability to trim the timing may not be great enough to account for the base idle being too wrong, i.e. it will run out of electronically adjustable range, which might occur at any load / rpm.

If your base ignition timing was set way too advanced, then the ECU would probably be trying to retard it a lot of the time, but may not be able to retard it enough. This could cause a loss of power (piston trying to ascend against prematurely high cylinder pressure), or worse, or much worse...

When doing the base timing you need to short out the diagnostic plug (under the dash) with a bit of wire. Shorting this plug puts the ECU in a mode in which it doesn't 'interfere' with the ignition timing. If the plug isn't shorted the ECU will try to auto adjust the ignition timing to what it should be at idle, which you don't want it to do when adjusting the base idle speed.

Next adjust the idle speed to correct spec, then check timing and adjust. If adjusting the timing results in a significant change in idle speed then re-adjust idle speed to spec and re-check timing, adjust again if needed. You may need to do this more than once until both the base idle and timing are correct. Don't forget to remove the wire from the diagnostic plug once you're done (the CEL should remind you though).

Note that the above is just my understanding of how the system works when setting base timing.

[H311RA151N]

He said he has read the DIY. So everything step by step will be in there.

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=146242

As for the ECU attempting to change the timing I don't think so. It doesn't have a knock sensor for one.

I would think the parameters would be broader than OBD2 systems as it has more room for error. But I'm no tuner.

Long story short Kev1990, Get a timing gun, go by the DIY. Call it good.

[johnl]

As for the ECU attempting to change the timing I don't think so. It doesn't have a knock sensor for one.

Then why would it be necessary to put the ECU in a 'diagnostic' mode to set base timing? I may be wrong but my understanding is that attempting to set base timing without doing this can result in timing problems...? The only way I can see for this to be the case would be if the ECU were 'fiddling' with the timing as the distributor was rotated...?

A knock sensor would be a good thing to have, but if the ECU were setting timing according to maps re other sensor inputs then wouldn't this still be OK enough to do the job (barring something outside expected parameters)? There is no knock sensor whether or not the ECU is 'connected' to the ignition, and I'm fairly sure the ECU normally does change the ignition timing beyond that required by mere rpm input, i.e. with regard to airflow, manifold vacuum, throttle position, cam position, etc. It (usually) does this successfully without a knock sensor.

Unless I'm really misunderstanding this...

[H311RA151N]

I wasn't suggesting that one should attempt it without jumping the diagnostic plug. I said follow the DIY and in the DIY that's how it's said to be done.

I asked my tuner and he said the diagnostic port is jumped in order to tell the ECU to always fire at the specified degrees. In the case of the F22A, that's 15*. The way it works is not really by the sensors but set to be a bit retard at low RPM and increasingly gain advancement as RPM's increase by default. With a knock sensor its slightly different as gathering data to configure the ignition timing is the sole purpose of a knock sensor. And my tuner is the IFO all motor champion about every year so I tend to trust his judgement.