just replace rings & pistons?

[SterlingVMoses]

New guy here..
I have a 92 LX model..stock everything

The engine has low compression in #2 & #4 cylinders. Did a leak down test and it seems to be the piston rings. It doesn't have any major leaks aside from oil on the two plugs with bad compression. The two healthy cylinders are reading about 120 and the two bad ones are reading 60 & 70 respectively.

My question is..should I just replace the rings and/Or pistons? Or since I have to take it all apart anyway should I go ahead and just replace everything from the crankshaft to the heads all the way around? If I do replace everything I'd rather do it with performance parts & get the horsepower that makes it worth it ya know lol

I'm open to suggestions either way. Thanks.

[Jarrett]

You could always put an F23A block underneath that F22A head, add a header, get a chippable ECU to have tuned and call it a day.

Low-mileage F23As can be had from importers for around $400 all day long. You can sell the head, intake manifold, distributor and small bits to recoup some of that cost. The added displacement and slightly bumped compression ratio will give the engine a little more "oomph" while also giving you a much lower mileage engine that what you have now.

Assuming you rebuilt the F22A for performance purposes, you're already putting yourself in a territory where you would require tuning anyway, so most of the conventional arguments against the F23A block go away. I'm not saying it's without flaws, but it is very cost-effective.

From that point you can still add all of the items listed in the "40hp for $500 thread" such as an F22A6 camshaft and H23A1 intake manifold for even more gains. All of those would combine to put you near the 150whp mark with a tune.

EDIT*

To cover the cost implications of the above-mentioned:

JDM F23A - $400
gaskets and fluids - $250
generic header - $75
chipped P28/P06 - $150
F22A6 camshaft - $25
H23A1 intake manifold - $100
Professional Tuning - $300

Total investment of $1300.


Performance rebuild F22A:

higher compression forged F22A pistons - $550
bore and hone - $150
gaskets and fluids - $150
chipped P28/P06 - $150
Professional Tuning - $300

This one gets you to $1400, and that's without the other mods I listed above. Granted, if you got higher compression ratio forged pistons you'd be better served to have a custom WebCams camshaft grind, but it's all a matter of what your final goals are.

My point is that most who pose questions like you have are presented with an issue and want to just see a slight benefit in presenting a solution to it. They don't necessarily see it as a catalyst to a full-blown build. If you just want a slight bump in power with a refreshed bottom end, the F23A block accomplishes that.

[SterlingVMoses]

You could always put an F23A block underneath that F22A head, add a header, get a chippable ECU to have tuned and call it a day.

Low-mileage F23As can be had from importers for around $400 all day long. You can sell the head, intake manifold, distributor and small bits to recoup some of that cost. The added displacement and slightly bumped compression ratio will give the engine a little more "oomph" while also giving you a much lower mileage engine that what you have now.

Assuming you rebuilt the F22A for performance purposes, you're already putting yourself in a territory where you would require tuning anyway, so most of the conventional arguments against the F23A block go away. I'm not saying it's without flaws, but it is very cost-effective.

From that point you can still add all of the items listed in the "40hp for $500 thread" such as an F22A6 camshaft and H23A1 intake manifold for even more gains. All of those would combine to put you near the 150whp mark with a tune.

EDIT*

To cover the cost implications of the above-mentioned:

JDM F23A - $400
gaskets and fluids - $250
generic header - $75
chipped P28/P06 - $150
F22A6 camshaft - $25
H23A1 intake manifold - $100
Professional Tuning - $300

Total investment of $1300.


Performance rebuild F22A:

higher compression forged F22A pistons - $550
bore and hone - $150
gaskets and fluids - $150
chipped P28/P06 - $150
Professional Tuning - $300

This one gets you to $1400, and that's without the other mods I listed above. Granted, if you got higher compression ratio forged pistons you'd be better served to have a custom WebCams camshaft grind, but it's all a matter of what your final goals are.

My point is that most who pose questions like you have are presented with an issue and want to just see a slight benefit in presenting a solution to it. They don't necessarily see it as a catalyst to a full-blown build. If you just want a slight bump in power with a refreshed bottom end, the F23A block accomplishes that.

What I was looking at was going ahead and putting all bisimoto pistons which are $400 plus the camshaft for $399 and all the rest from them as well..essentially putting a whole new engine internal group in place from bisimoto. I'd have to tune it anyway afterwards. With that being the case, I was also possibly thinking of switching the ecu for a prelude of the same year. Do you think that'd give me better horsepower along with a good header? Cuz my only concern with the jdm route is that there's no reputable importers here so I would have to get it shipped which would add heavily to the cost also not being able to see it before I buy it.

[wagon-r]

My question is..should I just replace the rings and/Or pistons? Or since I have to take it all apart anyway should I go ahead and just replace everything from the crankshaft to the heads all the way around?
I'm open to suggestions either way. Thanks.

There is a good chance that your piston grooves are full of carbon and won't let the rings seat properly. That's what happened to my engine, which had 25-30% leakage past the rings when I bought the car. I replaced the rings, carefully cleaned all the carbon out of the grooves, had the head reconditioned and milled, and put it back together. Didn't even hone the cylinders and my leakage is now less than 5% in every cylinder. (BTW, the Honda repair manual says you don't need to hone as long as the cylinders are within specs and are not scored.)

Of course, while I was at it I replaced the rod bearings, timing belt, etc.

My point is simply that only you can decide how much you want to spend and how much your time is worth. If you have spare time and don't have much cash, replacing the rings is likely the way to go. If you want to upgrade performance and have the money, then F23A block may be a better route.

[SterlingVMoses]

There is a good chance that your piston grooves are full of carbon and won't let the rings seat properly. That's what happened to my engine, which had 25-30% leakage past the rings when I bought the car. I replaced the rings, carefully cleaned all the carbon out of the grooves, had the head reconditioned and milled, and put it back together. Didn't even hone the cylinders and my leakage is now less than 5% in every cylinder. (BTW, the Honda repair manual says you don't need to hone as long as the cylinders are within specs and are not scored.)

Of course, while I was at it I replaced the rod bearings, timing belt, etc.

My point is simply that only you can decide how much you want to spend and how much your time is worth. If you have spare time and don't have much cash, replacing the rings is likely the way to go. If you want to upgrade performance and have the money, then F23A block may be a better route.

I have all the time in the world cuz it's my second car. I'm not in a rush and I bought it to be a project for me to work on in my spare time. I'm going for as much performance as possible out of it within reason. Not quite looking to go crazy and get 500 hp or anything but I think 300 is reasonable

[Jarrett]

Cuz my only concern with the jdm route is that there's no reputable importers here so I would have to get it shipped which would add heavily to the cost also not being able to see it before I buy it.

There are no importers in Houston? Really? In the second largest port in the entire US?

What about these?

http://houston.craigslist.org/ptd/5005186932.html

http://jdmstates.com/all-engines/jdm...ion-98-26.html (ask for it without the transmission)

[deevergote]

He said no reputable importers... which may be true. I live in New Jersey, where there are MANY major ports nearby, and lots of engine importers. I would still only buy an engine from hmotorsonline.com, all the way from California... because I would trust their products (and their honor in the event of a bad engine) over anything near me.

Paying more for added peace of mind is often worth every penny.

[SterlingVMoses]

There are no importers in Houston? Really? In the second largest port in the entire US?

What about these?

http://houston.craigslist.org/ptd/5005186932.html

http://jdmstates.com/all-engines/jdm...ion-98-26.html (ask for it without the transmission)

I bought an engine from jdm states for my old 97 a few years back that was a lemon. I'll never go to them again. As for JES, I haven't heard any good or bad on them one way or the other so Im a little sketchy on dealing with them. I've heard a lot of good about hmotorsonline.com but like I said then u go into shipping issues along with not being able to see before I buy. So idk..it's risky

[Jarrett]

Paying more for added peace of mind is often worth every penny.

Usually I'd agree. especially for the many cases where people ask for answers to the most basic of swap questions that reveal their intense lack of knowledge on the matter. For the purposes of using only the shortblock (my suggestion, not something the OP indicated any interest in) I'm less inclined to spend the premium on reliability. I'll be taking most of it apart anyway.

I bought an engine from jdm states for my old 97 a few years back that was a lemon. I'll never go to them again. As for JES, I haven't heard any good or bad on them one way or the other so Im a little sketchy on dealing with them. I've heard a lot of good about hmotorsonline.com but like I said then u go into shipping issues along with not being able to see before I buy. So idk..it's risky

I've not heard of anyone having issues with them before. When I saw their stock, nothing looked like obvious junk. Granted, the selection wasn't as performance-minded as their site would lead you to believe.

Either way, they have warranties and can be viewed in person.



All of this is moot, however, if your power goals are near the 300whp mark. This will require a power-adder such as a turbocharger to achieve these goals. That means that you'll be building the engine anyway. Since you will be doing that, the F22A seems the logical platform to start on as you already have it.

[SterlingVMoses]

Usually I'd agree. especially for the many cases where people ask for answers to the most basic of swap questions that reveal their intense lack of knowledge on the matter. For the purposes of using only the shortblock (my suggestion, not something the OP indicated any interest in) I'm less inclined to spend the premium on reliability. I'll be taking most of it apart anyway.



I've not heard of anyone having issues with them before. When I saw their stock, nothing looked like obvious junk. Granted, the selection wasn't as performance-minded as their site would lead you to believe.

Either way, they have warranties and can be viewed in person.



All of this is moot, however, if your power goals are near the 300whp mark. This will require a power-adder such as a turbocharger to achieve these goals. That means that you'll be building the engine anyway. Since you will be doing that, the F22A seems the logical platform to start on as you already have it.

Yeah the logic is to give myself room to do extra to it like turbos or nos in the future. Right now it's an auto so I'm gonna have to do a tranny swap eventually as well. I have essentially a blank canvas with really good body and interior to work with..I lucked up on it...won't even tell you how much I got it for lol

[deevergote]

If you plan on doing any form of forced induction, and you want it to last, you'd be wise to install forged pistons. Especially with turbo (or a supercharger, if you're creative.) Nitrous isn't as big a deal, unless you go with a big shot (100+) and/or use it frequently.
Keep in mind that pistons designed for N/A performance are not appropriate for forced induction.

As for Bisimoto... save your money. He resells products from other manufacturers that are "built to his specs" (which I've come to doubt, given the horribly out of spec camshaft a member got a while back...) You can buy your pistons directly from Arias. Jarrett, wasn't it you that determined Bisimoto's F22A turbo pistons were really just Arias shelf pistons for a 4G63?


Since this isn't a primary vehicle, take your time and build it up from the get-go. You'll save money and hassle in the long run, and end up with a car that reliably performs as you want it to. A half-built turbo-ready engine isn't going to be very fun on the street, but even a mild N/A build might not be happy with turbo.
Just put some inexpensive forged turbo-specific pistons (and proper rods) in an otherwise stock F22A, and 300whp will be a breeze with a proper turbo system, necessary fuel upgrades, a good ECU tune, and a clutch made to handle the increased power.
Stay focused, and it'll be surprisingly cheap. I paid $16,000 for a car making just over 300whp a couple years ago. Build smart, and your CB7 can make that much power for a third of that price.

[Jarrett]

I voiced that sentiment here, but I think many others came to that conclusion long before. He's not a very difficult read, that guy.

[SterlingVMoses]

If you plan on doing any form of forced induction, and you want it to last, you'd be wise to install forged pistons. Especially with turbo (or a supercharger, if you're creative.) Nitrous isn't as big a deal, unless you go with a big shot (100+) and/or use it frequently.
Keep in mind that pistons designed for N/A performance are not appropriate for forced induction.

As for Bisimoto... save your money. He resells products from other manufacturers that are "built to his specs" (which I've come to doubt, given the horribly out of spec camshaft a member got a while back...) You can buy your pistons directly from Arias. Jarrett, wasn't it you that determined Bisimoto's F22A turbo pistons were really just Arias shelf pistons for a 4G63?


Since this isn't a primary vehicle, take your time and build it up from the get-go. You'll save money and hassle in the long run, and end up with a car that reliably performs as you want it to. A half-built turbo-ready engine isn't going to be very fun on the street, but even a mild N/A build might not be happy with turbo.
Just put some inexpensive forged turbo-specific pistons (and proper rods) in an otherwise stock F22A, and 300whp will be a breeze with a proper turbo system, necessary fuel upgrades, a good ECU tune, and a clutch made to handle the increased power.
Stay focused, and it'll be surprisingly cheap. I paid $16,000 for a car making just over 300whp a couple years ago. Build smart, and your CB7 can make that much power for a third of that price.

I'd never heard anything bad about bisimoto. That's new to me. Who would you recommend for a camshaft instead? I got a guy that does ecu. He's actually the guy I got the car from.

As for the focus of it, that's where I'm at now. I wanna plan everything out from the beginning so I don't have to buy stuff over and over. Lol made that mistake on my 97 and ended up $15k into a car with a destroyed engine in less than a year smh

[deevergote]

Yeah, I made the same mistake... as have many of us. You get excited and buy parts like crazy, and you end up with a collection of parts that don't work properly together, a build that is far from being complete, and an empty wallet.

If 300whp is your goal, just focus on the pistons and rods. Even the rods aren't 100% necessary, as the stock rods aren't going to be terribly strained by a moderate turbo setup... but modifying things to use aftermarket pistons with stock rods can be tricky, and potentially unreliable if you don't do it properly. You should be able to reach your goal with relative ease, even with a completely stock head, stock camshaft, stock sleeves (as long as they're in good condition.) Spend your money on a quality turbo setup, clutch, fuel pump, and injectors... then be sure to get it tuned very well. If all is done correctly, the engine may very well be as reliable as stock.


Bisimoto used to be our hero. The guy that came seemingly out of nowhere as the absolute F22A expert. Bisi does know his stuff. I won't deny that, and his racing career certainly shows it. However, he's an awful businessman, and every single person he chose as his representative on this site has been absolutely worthless. To the point that CB7tuner has cut all ties with Bisimoto.
His pistons are made by Arias. His camshafts are made by WEB. Every product he sells is made by someone else. It makes sense, as Arias can manufacture pistons better than Bisimoto can... so there's nothing wrong with that. Claims that the products were made to Bisimoto's specs are still questionable, however. Especially for the less expensive products that the majority of the people can and will afford.
I have no doubt that Bisimoto could build you one hell of an engine if you just let them do the whole thing from start to finish, with money being no object. But if you're building on a budget, and can only afford the lower-end off-the-shelf products, you're paying more money for a name... and buying from a company that has shown time and time again within this community alone that they couldn't care less about their customer once they have their money.
Even if the lower-end products are "Bisimoto spec", the differences in a mild amateur build from simple generic WEB camshaft regrinds or off-the-shelf Arias pistons are unlikely to be terribly significant.

I don't mean to bash the company unfairly, and I certainly won't discredit Bisi's personal accomplishments, or the fact that he drew much-needed attention to the F22A. However, since this forum has been a major supporter of Bisimoto in the past (as seen in countless threads), and we have easily driven over $100,000 worth of business their way, I cannot in good conscience continue to promote the company after the way far too many of my members have been treated.

[SterlingVMoses]

Makes sense. My thing was trying to get all of the internals from the same manufacturer. In doing that I figured i would less problems with compatibility between specs ya know. I wanna definitely replace the rods anyway because they have close to 230k miles on them along with the heads. So it only really makes sense to me to replace all of the internals because if I don't I feel like the one I don't replace will end up failing anyway. The block itself is great. The only thing really "wrong" right now is the piston rings. But I feel like with the mileage and normal wear if I replace some and not all, then turbo it and add nos, eventually it'll put undue strain on the stock parts causing failure. Kind of a straw and camel effect.

I'm still kinda wondering about exhaust though. Is there a way I can split the exhaust coming out to a sort of dual pipe configuration out of the back.. I guess you could say like a 4-2 set up much the same as you would if it was a v8 cutting away to a dual exhaust