f22 vs h22 round 2

[jdm92_accorn]

stock f22a6 with only 10.5:1 comp. pistons nothing else vs h22a1 stock. the only thing that makes a large power difference between the two comes from compression. h22a1 has 10.6:1 and it makes 190hp and 156lb/ft but f22a6 has 8.8:1 and makes 140hp and 142lb/ft. 50hp and 14lb/ft but look at the significant compression increase almost two points. for anyone that truely understands that's a big increase. so is dohc v-tec all of its power or is it the compression?

[birdmanCB7]

stock f22a6 with only 10.5:1 comp. pistons nothing else vs h22a1 stock. the only thing that makes a large power difference between the two comes from compression. h22a1 has 10.6:1 and it makes 190hp and 156lb/ft but f22a6 has 8.8:1 and makes 140hp and 142lb/ft. 50hp and 14lb/ft but look at the significant compression increase almost two points. for anyone that truely understands that's a big increase. so is dohc v-tec all of its power or is it the compression?

my guess would be compression

[NAiL05]

Other factors contribute such as cam used, exhaust systems, stroke. The compression plays a role but then you have strength of whats inside the motor. Ciscos red project runs stock compression as I recall and makes 152whp all motor. His white one is more aggressive and should be a lot more hardcore than the red build.

[TypeG]

so is dohc v-tec all of its power or is it the compression?

my guess would be both. later.

[jdm92_accorn]

i think if you bumped the compression in an f22a6 to 10.5:1 and changed just the upper intake plentum, t/b, injectors you know give it everything but v-tec and dohc of an h22 i think it would make more usable power and it would be faster. am i right or wrong?

[birdmanCB7]

i think if you bumped the compression in an f22a6 to 10.5:1 and changed just the upper intake plentum, t/b, injectors you know give it everything but v-tec and dohc of an h22 i think it would make more usable power and it would be faster. am i right or wrong?

right.. in my opinion

[jdm92_accorn]

yes!!!!! a follower of the almighty f22's

[deevergote]

The F22A is an amazing engine... but there is MUCH more to take into account than just the compression.

That's like saying turbo cars with front mount intercoolers are faster than my car... so I can just put a front mount intercooler on there and be just as fast!

[Yossarian]

i think if you bumped the compression in an f22a6 to 10.5:1 and changed just the upper intake plentum, t/b, injectors you know give it everything but v-tec and dohc of an h22 i think it would make more usable power and it would be faster. am i right or wrong?

Do it! and let us know To me, the main things are the wilder cam in the H, and the shorter gears in the tranny. If you are serious about your car, you will swap trannies anyway. And Bisi has given us aftermarket cam options to rival that of the H.

I think one problem with finding this out, if I am going to pull my motor apart and build it for power, im going for at least 11.5:1 or 12:1.

Seems like the F23 is the real gem. For cheap power, that is. most N/A honda performance motors live in the high rpms. Thus, they have shorter stroke, better volumetric efficiency (though i cant see 2mm of stroke hurting that efficiency) and the famous lack of torque. As Piratemcfred showed us from honda-tech, the F23 has some real potential. He used a f22bdohc head and right around 11.7:1 compression and put 200 to the wheels. (Stage 2 crower cams, i belive and an 87mm bore) That motor would eat a H22. and cost less, with stock cams he made 180ish. still impressive for junkyard parts.


he used the F23 block for the stroke, better midrange torque. I think with the stock f22 crank, you would just trade a little Torque in the midrange for horsepower in the top. The botom ends on these 2 motors are SOO similar that i think it really depends on what kind of air an F22a can move, with a stage 2 cam. If it can move at least what an H23/f22b DOHC head can, then 200 WHP might not only be easy, but cheap too. (in the realm of rebuilding your motor for high compression :0 )

A lot of these questions will be answered when hondafan81 gets on the dyno with the white accord, after the break-in (Hit up the performace forums for that, if you havent.) I think hes going to get much more than 200 whp, and if he does, i think a much more lightly modified f22 could hit 200 with little difficulty.

[bcjammerx]

I agree...upping the f22 compression would get it close.

BUT the big thing with the f22 is that if you want to boost...then you don't have to change compression...keep as is!

H22...little more to it.

Either way from what I've seen on this site from my searches...it's believed that the f22 can handle around 8-10 psi on stock internals (but with ecu and fuel upgrade)

[Yossarian]

erm, i thought we were talking about N/A F22a....Boost is no problem, i think theres a few over 300whp, and at least one really close to 400.

[bcjammerx]

oops...well in that case...if I were to go N/A...I personally would use the h22...it's already set up for higher power...then do whatever you would do to the f22 to get power to theh22 and up it's power more...

[jdm92_accorn]

the only thing about the h22 is v-tec is not even able to ingage if oil pressure, oil level, engine temp and even the knock sensor is not where its supposed to be. my power is there reguardless. i've been in both h22 car and in an f22 car with h22 tranny. both cars had i/h/c and stock rims and tires. the f22 pulled on the h out the whole all the way till about 55-60ish the the h caught up then they stayed bout the same from 95-110. the h22 felt faster because of the kick you get from v-tec but they were really close as far as the race went. i mean if i run my car up to about 3800rpms hold it then hit it to the floor you would swear up and down my car makes like 180whp when in truth it only makes like maybe 115ish to the ground. i just think if you give an f22 the goods you give an h22 excluding v-tec and dohc its just better. and for those who say the f22's oiling system is not made to run high power, bisimoto runs a factory oem oil pump with a ported housing and they have that car in the 9's all motor. i dont think ive seen too many h22's up there without boost.

[deevergote]

I can barely make sense of what you're saying.

You DO understand that the H22's VTEC (not v-tec... no hyphen necessary) system doesn't engage when the oil pressure or level is low, or when the motor is cold, simply to protect the engine, right? It's not a failing... it's a precaution against idiots that would rev to redline 10 seconds after starting their car.


The F22A makes power down low, and chokes up high. That is what it was designed to do. The H22 is about as strong as an F22A until VTEC. Then it keeps pulling where the F22A chokes. Therefore, they'll stick together until the F22A runs out of breath.

Bisi is a pro racer, and has a VERY VERY intimate understanding of the F22A. His accomplishments should be viewed as the current crowning achievements with the F22A, not something the everyday Accord tuner can do with his milk money. You CAN make considerable power with the F22A (hondafan81 shows this with his Red and White projects, a bit more realistic than Bisi's motor). Still, to say it's the "end-all better than the H22 motor" is a bit unreasonable.


Simply bumping the compression won't give you H22A power. End of story. It will not happen. Bumping the compression, adding a wilder camshaft, and doing headwork will give you H22A power.



Additionally, you must realize that Bisi is running mid-9s with a tube frame Insight. I doubt that thing weighs even half as much as a CB7. In a 2600lb CB7, Bisi himself told me that his motor could potentially pull mid-11s.

Scott Byars of Collective Racing (2point6) ran a 12.7 in his CB7 with a 250whp H22 (NA). That motor was driven daily, and got admirable gas mileage (I believe he said about 28mpg). Before it finally gave out (over 60,000 miles, and due to debris getting sucked in the ITBs, not mechanical failure) it was making over 270whp.



The F22A can be made to compete, sure. I'm not denying that. It's a fantastic motor... but the H22 is 200hp out of the box, and has plenty of potential itself.

[ChIoVnIdCa]

the only thing about the h22 is v-tec is not even able to ingage if oil pressure, oil level, engine temp and even the knock sensor is not where its supposed to be. my power is there reguardless. i've been in both h22 car and in an f22 car with h22 tranny. both cars had i/h/c and stock rims and tires. the f22 pulled on the h out the whole all the way till about 55-60ish the the h caught up then they stayed bout the same from 95-110. the h22 felt faster because of the kick you get from v-tec but they were really close as far as the race went. i mean if i run my car up to about 3800rpms hold it then hit it to the floor you would swear up and down my car makes like 180whp when in truth it only makes like maybe 115ish to the ground. i just think if you give an f22 the goods you give an h22 excluding v-tec and dohc its just better. and for those who say the f22's oiling system is not made to run high power, bisimoto runs a factory oem oil pump with a ported housing and they have that car in the 9's all motor. i dont think ive seen too many h22's up there without boost.

ummm?