Front Downforce

[CB7 Fanatic]

Any ideas on how to get some front downforce without adding ugly canards? I'm fine with adding a front diffuser under my front lip, but don't want any stabilizer bars visible. I suppose I could custom make something, but that would probably be difficult. I'm looking to get my car ready to auto-x. Thanks in advance for your ideas.

[ikayto]

Any ideas on how to get some front downforce without adding ugly canards?

function >form.

[owequitit]

Instead of adding front downforce, and thus drag, you should concentrate on reducing front lift, or total lift.

[johnl]

Lift isn't an issue at autocross speeds, you'd need to be going a lot faster, i.e. race track speeds.

Nothing you can do short of a ground scraping full width air dam (and even then...) that would be illegal for road use will generate actual downforce at any sane speeds, the best you might hope for is some reduction in lift.

[owequitit]

Also, you should know that lift is an overall result, so to really address it, you are looking at several different things, and not just one little change.

A big improvement would be a flushmount spoiler for the trunk, or an aftermarket one similar to a BMW's. That will destroy the lift over the car, which is probably the single biggest improvement you could make.

An airdam will help as would wheel strakes. The problem with aerodynamics is that you can't do much without a wind tunnel.

Besides, why the huge drive to reduce lift? What are you doing with the car that it is an issue?

[1990Ex]

why would you worry about downforce ???? its not gonna matter unless your going really fucking fast

[CB7 Fanatic]

There have been 5 posts with zero ideas. Thanks for the help fellas.

[CB7 Fanatic]

why would you worry about downforce ???? its not gonna matter unless your going really fucking fast

You auto-x much?

[CB7 Fanatic]

Also, you should know that lift is an overall result, so to really address it, you are looking at several different things, and not just one little change.

I'm willing to make many changes. I don't know where you got the idea that I was looking for a single change.

A big improvement would be a flushmount spoiler for the trunk, or an aftermarket one similar to a BMW's. That will destroy the lift over the car, which is probably the single biggest improvement you could make.

Thanks for the response, but a rear spoiler would do nothing. Especially a little BMW style one.

An airdam will help as would wheel strakes. The problem with aerodynamics is that you can't do much without a wind tunnel.

Besides, why the huge drive to reduce lift? What are you doing with the car that it is an issue?

I've had a couple close calls just driving fast on the street. At the track, I'll be hitting even higher speeds.

Does anybody with auto-x experience have any helpful ideas?

[Accord R33]

dude, autocross speeds top out at what? 60mph if you're lucky? Downforce is the LAST thing you should be worried about.

If you were racing at Daytona or Talledega, i might take downforce into consideration, but its fricking autocross for god sake. You can only go so fast in the grocery store parking lot.

[cali-racer]

its fricking autocross for god sake. You can only go so fast in the grocery store parking lot.

hahahaha...

overall, u dont need that much d.f. for auto-x

[Shadow1]

like everyone is saying. forget about down force. worry about whats going to get you around the corners faster. worry about tires. worry about acceleration. those three things alone will get you around the auto-x course alot faster than some useless canards or other down force external mods will.


you want some down force? put a GT spoiler on your hood and your trunk lid. theres your down force.

[coletrain]

Um, I think coilovers, sway bars, strut bars, and sticky tires are your biggest needs. With stiff suspension and good tires you should do pretty well at the "grocery store" parking lot, lol.

If your looking for downforce on the track there's a couple things that come to mind; lowered with coilovers, sticky tires (again), front lip to minimize air turbulence under the car, rear diffuser, and maybe lightweight spoiler

[1990Ex]

You auto-x much?

nah, why ??? cause of my smartass comment ??? wasnt trying to be rude dude just speaking the truth......lower your car, get some swaybars, an some sticky tires an you should do just fine

[owequitit]

There have been 5 posts with zero ideas. Thanks for the help fellas.

Well good, since you don't need our help, then you should have already been able to figure it out.

There were no worthwhile ideas, because you didn't have the courtesy to tell us what you were trying to do in the first place, and yes real world conditions do matter. I.E. at autocross speeds, the input will be completely different than at supersonic speeds. So forgive us for not having the foresight to read your mind.

1) You can believe what you want. Aerodynamic drag doesn't even over take rolling resistance until about 50MPH. I highly doubt you will even see that in your car while autocrossing, and if you do, it won't be long enough to make a difference. Most cars don't start to produce appreciable lift until 90+ MPH, so trying to create downforce (which IS lift, only pointed towards the ground) is almost as foolish, as you also have to be travelling at a high rate of speed in order to generate appreciable downforce.

2) At the speeds you are travelling, downforce mods will be marginal at best, and even that is giving you the benefit of the doubt. You would be much better served by having a well sorted suspension system, ride height and alignment. Any autocrosser would probably be able to tell you that.

3) A little trunk spoiler would be much more effective than you think. You see, unlike you apparently, I actually understand how lift and drag work. As a result of this knowledge, I understand that lift is a total airflow package. In other words, lift at the front of the car is pretty dependent on the lift at the rear. A spoiler, by design, destroys lift at the rear of the car, thus helping to reduce it at the front. It doesn't eliminate it entirely, but it does reduce lift over the top of the car, which in turn is what is responsible for lift at the front. Why do you suppose that one of the most common aerodynamic mods for cars that actually go fast is a rear spoiler? Unless they want to generate downforce, and use a rear wing, which doesn't apply in your case.

4) The OTHER most common mod on a car to reduce front end lift is an airdam under the front of the car. By limiting the amount of air travelling under the car, you simultaneously reduce drag, lift, and aid cooling.

Unfortunately, none of these will be significant at the speeds you are doing.

Perhaps next time you should be more respectful when asking for help, when clearly you know all there is to know.