** TIPS ON DYNO TUNING & STREET TUNING **

[blazenem]

just skimmed thru at work so i had to subscribe so i can read all when i get home

[MRX]

Close, when running closed loop your o2 sensor tries to correct your a/f to 14.7. Your narrowband gauge can only only pin point 14.7 anything lower is just read as richer, anything higher is just read as lean.

If your car is tuned correctly theres no need to run a wideband at all times. The various sensors can compensate for changes in throttle, air density, air temp, and etc.

Granted, the wideband sniffer in the tail pipe is inaccurate because the sensor is placed too far back in the exhaust stream. Having an o2 bung installed near the header is alot more accurate

[slammed_cb7]

I have had a question that has been answered mostly by e-mechanics with little or no actual knowledge and would like a legitimate answer. When i get my car dyno tuned, they use a tailpipe wideband sniffer to nail AFR's at WOT in open loop. When i run closed loop on the street at part throttle, my narrowband will only be able to tell my ecu that i am running rich correct? Is it in my best intrest to run an actual wideband at all times for proper part throttle/closed loop driving or can you make a narrowband sniff say a 12.2 AFR and send my ecu stoich signal voltage?

[MRX]

did you read through the thread? Dyno tuning is the way to absolutely know the timing is right and the power is safe but yes you can street tune it with a wideband.

[quickangel93]

ok mrx i got a noob question. im not that much into tuning, but am willing to learn. if you chip my ecu, what else kind of tunning i need. can i street tune it instead of dino tune it. btw here for dino tunning you have to pay 250 buck per hour they guy spends on it and 150 for 3 runs! can you help me?

[BIEN_DIESEL]

reading alot from mdx makes me wana keep my car and go boost again

[Cam]

Awesome. Thanks for that.

[d112crzy]

you have no way of telling how much power you have when you're street tuning(unless you have those g-tech thingies and those are really accurate either). you may FEEL fast, but in reality you may be slower than when it doesnt FEEL fast.

street tuning is to get most of the bugs out, to get it running right and to also get part throttle down.

Dyno is to extract the most power you can, while still being safe.

You dont NEED to dyno, especially with simple mods. There's plenty of people that only tune on the street and run fine. There are also people that only tune on the street and their shit blows up in a week.

You gota have the right tools to be safe(wb, laptop, knock sensing device, magnifier, correct fuel, extra plugs....etc)

[Cam]

Really basic question that I couldn't quite pick up from the very first post about when to use a dyno and when to street tune.

Are you still trying to increase power while street tuning? Or is that pretty much only used to get the car running smoothly. Then when you're really trying to push it you would only do this on a dyno?

Are there any general rules about what to do where?

thanks

[d112crzy]

first, let me say damn!! Good job on this thread!!

ok, now. Im still confused on how to go about tuning the ignition tables, with NA. I know that for boost, you retard ~1*/pound. BUT, what about when its not in boost, or if I'm tuning an NA engine?

Reason I ask is because I will be helping a friend tune his fairly stock H22 and just want to get a little bit more power and get better gas mileage for now.

Would I leave the ignition tables alone and just work with the dizzy and cam timing? Of course, this wont be done without dyno.

thanks.

*edit*

ok, I just read over some more stuff and I think I understand. You can still adjust ignition on NA, it just takes longer because you gota see where the mods you have give you the most power and adjust accordingly, right? So, with this said, you can't really adjust the ignition maps without a dyno, since there is like no way of telling if you have detonation without the dyno(i'm saying this because i duno if you can tell with datalogging).

OK, now to clarify more. How do you know how much 1* is? I mean, just by adding 1% in the ign tables, how do I know by how much I advanced it? This is the part that has me confused the most. I dont quite understand how you can tell how much you have retarded or advanced.

I love coming back and reading my noob posts. Makes me proud of myself.

[MRX]

-Regarding datalogging- ok, lets say I slap my turbo on and go for a datalogging run. Is there a way to make a "basemap" to ensure that I can go through all ranges of loads/rpms without having to worry about blowing something up?

Well thats where the step by step process comes in. First of course you have to be able to start the car, second is can it hold an idle by itself...doesn't have to be a good idle but it should be able to hold long enough for you to troubleshoot and see if its a problem with too much fuel, not enough or ignition timing. Third is holding random rpm's like 1500, 1700, 2000, 2300rpm and so forth. From there you take the car for a spin and if your boosted go WOT from a 2000rpm 4th gear pull. Boost will climb slowly so you have time to let off if it starts to go lean or gets too choppy. You do this little by little unless you have a basemap that you already know can do all this but may need a tweak here and there for your specific setup. Thats where my maps come into play.

-I saw that on your dyno graph the torque jumps dramatically from 3-4K...did you have to recalibrate the injector pulse widths and timing dramatically under 3K, where there's basically no boost? I'm trying to figure out what's going on when the engine is "off-boost".

I'll start off by saying that in the 4th gear pull i did on the dyno my turbo actually creeps me into boost by 1900rpm. So by about 2500rpm i was at like 4-5psi but as you can see in the graph there wasn't a significant power increase, almost like the turbo hadn't reached an efficient range even tho it was in boost. By 3200rpm i'm at 10psi and so thats where it really started to pick up. Both the timing are slightly increasing in the 2k-3k area. When 3k hits and the power starts to rise sharply so does my timing and fuel. Don't be scared of a sharp power curve, but be sure to start leveling off and dropping the timing by about 1-2* approaching peak torque. More specifically tho when the engine is at say 0 vac and still not in boost you tune it just like you would an n/a engine. Shoot for about a 12.5-13.0 (so u have an easier time hitting the 11.7-12.0 a/f in boost. Timing is dependant on the rpm at that point and u can look over some of my maps to get a better idea of where the timing should be. If u can create a strong n/a map your boosted map will go ALOT easier.

-Any word on an "improved" map for an N/A F22? I might do something myself just to learn how to do my own street tuning...

Yea actually grumpys93 is the guinea pig and everything has worked out quite well for him. Haven't heard a peep out of him about the ecu in months. He's been running my ecu for about a year. Hondafan is meeting me in NC and i'll have a very solid map for the 272 cam. So things are good for the n/a f22's. Still its practically impossible to gain anything if the engine doesn't have atleast a cam and the required bolt-ons. But for someone looking for a start into ecu tuning its perfect

ok, now. Im still confused on how to go about tuning the ignition tables, with NA. I know that for boost, you retard ~1*/pound. BUT, what about when its not in boost, or if I'm tuning an NA engine?

I understand what your asking but theres no easy way to explain it. Truely depends on the setup, copmression, flow characteristics, octane being used, etc. I can't really answer that cause its too broad of a question.

Would I leave the ignition tables alone and just work with the dizzy and cam timing? Of course, this wont be done without dyno.

No, you modify the ignition tables and cam timing but leave the dizzy alone.

ok, I just read over some more stuff and I think I understand. You can still adjust ignition on NA, it just takes longer because you gota see where the mods you have give you the most power and adjust accordingly, right?

Why would it take longer? With any setup your looking for smooth power with your adjustments

So, with this said, you can't really adjust the ignition maps without a dyno, since there is like no way of telling if you have detonation without the dyno(i'm saying this because i duno if you can tell with datalogging).

You can adjust the ignition table but you shouldn't get aggressive with the timing if your not on the dyno. If you've got pops and stutters in the vac map then of course u can try to fix that without a dyno.

OK, now to clarify more. How do you know how much 1* is? I mean, just by adding 1% in the ign tables, how do I know by how much I advanced it? This is the part that has me confused the most. I dont quite understand how you can tell how much you have retarded or advanced.

ignition is done in degrees always. I don't think u quite understand that when someone says "i set my idle to 16 degrees" that they literally set the idle to spark at 16 degrees before top dead center. Its the same in uber. If you add 1% to 16 degrees then your adding 1% of 16 to 16. 1% of 16 is 0.16 so you end up with 16.16 degrees. Thats just mathematics.

[d112crzy]

TIME the dizzy and TUNE the map
if ujr using "h22" timing.....then you should be good...

first, let me say damn!! Good job on this thread!!

ok, now. Im still confused on how to go about tuning the ignition tables, with NA. I know that for boost, you retard ~1*/pound. BUT, what about when its not in boost, or if I'm tuning an NA engine?

Reason I ask is because I will be helping a friend tune his fairly stock H22 and just want to get a little bit more power and get better gas mileage for now.

Would I leave the ignition tables alone and just work with the dizzy and cam timing? Of course, this wont be done without dyno.

thanks.

*edit*

ok, I just read over some more stuff and I think I understand. You can still adjust ignition on NA, it just takes longer because you gota see where the mods you have give you the most power and adjust accordingly, right? So, with this said, you can't really adjust the ignition maps without a dyno, since there is like no way of telling if you have detonation without the dyno(i'm saying this because i duno if you can tell with datalogging).

OK, now to clarify more. How do you know how much 1* is? I mean, just by adding 1% in the ign tables, how do I know by how much I advanced it? This is the part that has me confused the most. I dont quite understand how you can tell how much you have retarded or advanced.

[gloryaccordy]

Oh man this thread is teh sex, no homo...I read through most of it and PGMFI.ORG's library and learned an assload.

So many questions though:

-Regarding datalogging- ok, lets say I slap my turbo on and go for a datalogging run. Is there a way to make a "basemap" to ensure that I can go through all ranges of loads/rpms without having to worry about blowing something up?

-I saw that on your dyno graph the torque jumps dramatically from 3-4K...did you have to recalibrate the injector pulse widths and timing dramatically under 3K, where there's basically no boost? I'm trying to figure out what's going on when the engine is "off-boost".

-Any word on an "improved" map for an N/A F22? I might do something myself just to learn how to do my own street tuning...

[iamanonymous]

So I have a new question.

How do you tune ignition? I'm soo scared of my engine getting screwed by this EPROM someone wrote for me...so I'd like to correct it back to what it should be. It's an N/A JDM H22a stock all, i.h.e...etc. Any recomendations on how to tune this setup for igntion?

Also, one more Hardware question if I may, do I have to solder some Jumper on the P28 to get it to datalog to ECUControl or Uberdata if I just add a serial connector to CN2 like this:
http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/inde...;threadid=3321

Thanks so much.

edit:
also, to be safe...can you just roll the dizzy retarted to be on the safe side? Will that work? Also, would that cause any ill consequences?

TIME the dizzy and TUNE the map
if ujr using "h22" timing.....then you should be good...

[TheTempest]

So I have a new question.

How do you tune ignition? I'm soo scared of my engine getting screwed by this EPROM someone wrote for me...so I'd like to correct it back to what it should be. It's an N/A JDM H22a stock all, i.h.e...etc. Any recomendations on how to tune this setup for igntion?

Also, one more Hardware question if I may, do I have to solder some Jumper on the P28 to get it to datalog to ECUControl or Uberdata if I just add a serial connector to CN2 like this:
http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/inde...;threadid=3321

Thanks so much.

edit:
also, to be safe...can you just roll the dizzy retarted to be on the safe side? Will that work? Also, would that cause any ill consequences?