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Need info on "beefing up" a F22A1...

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    #1

    Need info on "beefing up" a F22A1...

    Quick question... Is there anything (short of nitrous and forced induction...) you can do to "beef up" the F22A1? I have a short ram intake, and flex pipe back exhaust... I'm looking for relitively affordable methods of gaining HP and torque. Nothing like boring the block and installing larger pistons... just relitively simple and affordable methods. My '92 LX is my daily driver at the moment, and can't afford much down time. Any suggestions I would be very greatful for! Thankx.
    Nova: A star that suddenly increases it's light output tremendously and then fades away to its former obscurity in a few months or years.

    Supernova: One of the rarely observed nova outbursts in which the maximum intrinsic luminosity may reach 100 million times that of the sun.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Oh yeah.....

    -Drivetrain upgrades (such as the clutch, H23 trans...etc)
    -Ported and Polished F22A6 Intake manifold swap
    -Header
    -Piggy Back, ECU Electronics or reprogrammed ECU
    -Bored throttle body
    -F22A6 camshaft, or an aftermarket piece
    -Cam Gear
    -Fuel System Upgrades
    -Underdrive Pulleys
    -Aftermarket ignition systems

    (Not necesseraily in that exact order)

    The mods i listed have a relatively low down time, if you know what you are doing. I might have left some items off, but hopefully other CB7 tuners will list them. Check the member's rides section and take a look at what other people did to their F series engines. My company built up a F22A6 to show its full potential. It was very impressive, the F-Series have a lot of power waiting to be unleashed.

    Comment

      #3
      Thankx for the info, FushigiRES! I see you mentioned fuel system upgrades... I was talking with a co-worker who is A.S.E. certified a couple of days ago about a fule pressure regulator. I told him I was of the impression that if I was to install one of those on my Accord, I thought I would also have to have the computer reprogrammed because I thought no matter what you set a pressure regulator at, it wouldn't deliver more fuel unless the computer "told" the engine to increase fuel flow... He said that was not true, that an adjustable aftermarket pressure regulator would increase fuel flow without having to reprogram the computer. I told him that it would be ideal to increase fuel flow, since I had the short ram intake and increasing fuel would better the air to fuel ratio for my engine. Any idea if he was correct on that therory? Can I install an adjustable pressure regulator and it actualy increase my fuel flow without reprograming my computer? And if so, any idea of the potential HP gain, if any? Once again, thankx. Sorry to be so long winded!
      Nova: A star that suddenly increases it's light output tremendously and then fades away to its former obscurity in a few months or years.

      Supernova: One of the rarely observed nova outbursts in which the maximum intrinsic luminosity may reach 100 million times that of the sun.

      Comment

        #4
        Generally it is safe to raise the fuel pressure no more than 10 to 15 percent. Rasing the fuel pressure of a stock injection system changes the specific fuel flow calibration of the injector. The computer bases all its calculations on the known calibration of the injector. When the calibration changes due to an increase in the the fuel pressure, the computer cannot know this without a calibration change. Since the injector's flow rate changes, all the computer's origional calculations are in error and the fuel curve will experince a shift that may be harmful across most of the engine's operating range. Like was stated before, you can raise it 10 to 15 percent safely without ecu modifications.

        Comment

          #5
          i have an entire thread dedicated to learning about fuel. Search for "fuel 101" by me. No seriously look it up. Its long winded but you'll live. But just for a short reply to your questions the fpr doesn't add fuel unless you turn it up really high (10+ psi). Raising it conservatively (1-10psi)creates more of a misting effect when the fuel is sprayed from the injectors which in turn atomizes better causing a cleaner and well spread burn. I've seen usually 1-5hp gained from playing with fuel pressure. And a smoother powerband. Optimizing the actual a/f ratio depends on how the engine is currently running. Simply adding/subtracting fuel may lose power if you don't know what your doing. The best a/f ratio i've seen for n/a f22's is a flat 13.5:1 a/f. If you don't have a wideband yet then theres basically no point in trying to add fuel to "optimize" of any sort
          Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

          FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

          Comment

            #6
            Thanks for the replys, guys! (rhyming not intentional... ) I spoke to my co-worker again yesterday, and what he explained to me made since. He told me any time you have a high flow air intake or high flow exhausht (like I do...), that even tho you may not notice it, you are leaning out your a/f ratio. Makes since... if you increase air flow and do nothing to the fuel flow to increase it, you will run lean. I also asked around with other A.S.E. certified techs about my questions. The responces seem to be consistant. I also asked if it would damage my injectors (stock...) to increase fuel pressure, and everyone said so long as you are not going over the rated specs of what your injectors can handle. They said to figure out how much pressure my stock regulator was making, then look up the specs on what my stock injectors can handle. And as long as I don't turn the pressure up past that max spec, I should be okay. But I figured to be totaly safe, I'd better check with other tuners that have been this route first. Racer X, what is a wideband? Not familer with the term... Still sorta new at this... But regardless, is my co-worker right? Could I benifit even a little from upping the fuel pressure a bit? Thinking the price he has on his regulator is kinda a steal... $50... J.C. Whittney A.E.M. systems new are around $180! And I could get a fuel pressure tester w/ a guage from 0-100 psi and adapt it to this regulator for around $25 new. In the neighborhood of $75 to $80 total... Sounded pretty good to me... Anyways, thankx again!
            Nova: A star that suddenly increases it's light output tremendously and then fades away to its former obscurity in a few months or years.

            Supernova: One of the rarely observed nova outbursts in which the maximum intrinsic luminosity may reach 100 million times that of the sun.

            Comment

              #7
              fushigi were are you guys now in the reaserch and development phase? im extremely interested on pricing for my newmotor from you guys! Thanks
              To have loved and lost is better than to have never loved at all #CB7Life

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by SuperNova92LX
                Racer X, what is a wideband? Not familer with the term... Still sorta new at this
                You didn't even begin to search for the thread i mentioned did you lol?
                here...and seriously...read it. Almost every single one of your questions has been answered already.

                http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...highlight=fuel
                Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                Comment

                  #9
                  I tried PMing you about our engine program, and to answer some questions you had, but your box was full. Is it empty now Saucy?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by FushigiRES
                    I tried PMing you about our engine program, and to answer some questions you had, but your box was full. Is it empty now Saucy?
                    what about my pm?...mrx don't get no love?
                    Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                    FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Midnite..I just got your PM..i'm trying to find you some good parts as we speak...Fushigi loves you!!!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        fushigi! imy opm box is empty i need to have a nice lengthy chat about what i require for my car/the road racing i will be doing, and i would also like to speak to you about sponsorship, and hopefully if everything works im going to have my full motor built buy you guys.
                        To have loved and lost is better than to have never loved at all #CB7Life

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Midnight: Finaly had a chance to read your 101 post! You asked if anyone knew the exact figures on the stock fuel psi... My Haynes manual says with the vaccum line on top of the stock regulator plugged up the psi should be from 30-38 psi. It reads a little higher if you unplugg the vaccum hose... Can't remember the first number there, but the last one was 47 psi. Hope that info is helpful!
                          Nova: A star that suddenly increases it's light output tremendously and then fades away to its former obscurity in a few months or years.

                          Supernova: One of the rarely observed nova outbursts in which the maximum intrinsic luminosity may reach 100 million times that of the sun.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Finaly got that adjustable regulator!!! Also, if anyone is interested, I found a realy cheap way to moniter your fule psi...
                            At an Advance Auto Parts store in my town, I found a fule psi tester for around $36 to the general public (the reason I say general public is I got mine for around $25 since I work at a local dealership. Anyone working at a garage like a dealer or a quick lube exc. gets a discount on parts! Very handy! Not just at Advance, but all local parts stores...).
                            To make this work, first off, don't freak out when you look on the back of the tester at the parts store because it says it only fits domestic cars. You will be fabricating your own fitting anyway, and the guage will still read psi (it dosen't know it's not on a dumbestic car! ). I had such a tough time getting my guage setup to work, I thought I'd share the info to keep others from going through the head aches I had to. I even called my local Honda dealer to see if they sold an adapter to fit the service port on the fule rail, and they could not help me! So this info may be very useful...
                            Buy the fule pressure tester, it's a little cheaper than like an Autometer guage. Here's the important part that Honda won't even help you with... The service port for your F22 is 12 X 1.25 mm (the bottom bolt, not the little one on top...) Good luck finding a brass fitting for that... I had NO luck. So, I checked my Haynes manual and found the secret. Go buy a 12 X 1.25 mm bolt and nut. Cut the head off the bolt, then drill a hole through the bolt. Now, screw the bolt into your service port on the fule rail, and tighten the nut down on the bolt. There you have you new fitting! (Trust me, it works...) Now that you have your new fitting, get a piece of 3/8 hose around a foot long, and two hose clamps. if you get the same guage I did, you will also need a brass fitting that is male on both ends, but one end needs to be 1/8 pipe thread, and the other end big enough to snuggly fit into your 3/8 hose. When you get that fitting, also get a "plugg" fitting that is male on one end and closed on the other that is also 1/8 pipe thread. This plug will be used in place of the "bleeder valve" on the "T" fitting your guage is screwed into. The rest is simple. Put one end of the hose over your new service port fitting and screw down a hose clam around it. Install the double male fitting that is 1/8 pipe thread on one side and bigger on the other into the bottom of the "T" fitting of your guage (you will have to remove the rubber hose that was there for domestics...). Put the other end of your hose over the larger end of the fitting and secure it with the other hose clamp. Find a good place to mount or lay the guage. Since I have a stinkin' automatic tranny, I laid my guage right under the place on the fire wall where the clutch resivor would bolt to the fire wall. After that, start your car and watch the guage! Stock pressure should read between 30-38psi. Now adjust your A.F.P.R. (adjustable fule pressure regulator...) to where you need it!
                            Sorry to hurt everyone's eyes and cause your head to hurt, but I just wanted to be helpful. If anyone needs further help in understanding my rammbling on, post a reply or P.M. me. I'll be glad to help or explane or clarify anything! Love.
                            Nova: A star that suddenly increases it's light output tremendously and then fades away to its former obscurity in a few months or years.

                            Supernova: One of the rarely observed nova outbursts in which the maximum intrinsic luminosity may reach 100 million times that of the sun.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              One more thing I kinda forgot to mention, when you install your homeade fitting, be sure to use the washer that was there on your stock fitting. Also, it's a good idea to use thread seal tape on all of your fittings! Don't want any leeks!
                              Nova: A star that suddenly increases it's light output tremendously and then fades away to its former obscurity in a few months or years.

                              Supernova: One of the rarely observed nova outbursts in which the maximum intrinsic luminosity may reach 100 million times that of the sun.

                              Comment

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