Stock Basemap timing curves

[mtnickel]

Hi guys..been looking at a bunch of F22 basemaps lately deciding what would be a good start for in vacuum. As far as i know no one has done extensive load based dyno tuning to get best power at each load and RPM. Therefore we're somewhat limited for NA tuning.
Although, MRX did play around a lot with trying to make more power on an NA car.
Seems like from our low compression that people can throw a lot of timing in with no mal effects.
Also, these maps are basically designed for 87 octane, so when we start running turbos and 93-94 octane it's not unreasonable to add more timing to the NA map as well.

From other further reading, aparantly the same maps in uberdata will actually add more timing than the same maps in Crome. Not sure why...but just what some tuners have found in the past.

Ok, well here are some screenshots of the maps i've found.

Here's the p12 (JDM F22A ecu)...aparantly some have made more power on this ecu than the stock pt3.



P39 ecu - F22B DOHC.
Maps straight off stock rom. Now this might make sense in that if a head takes in more air it would be more explosive and burn faster...thus requiring a lot less timing. Quite a big dip at maximum torque.



P14 - H23 ecu
Similar. Higher CR but bigger bore, so take it as it is.


MRX distributed F22a 14b (boost columns not shown...but i'd say the boost section is nice in that he adds a nice dip where it spools and overall timing is pretty good...where i based my map anyways)



My current NA map...more or less a modified GSR/H23 basemap. Run on my F22B dohc.



D112's F22B basemap.



Now from these results...i'm leaning towards using the F22B mostly but adding more timing in near WOT to account for better octane fuel...perhaps bring it closer to my hybrid or MRXs map.

What are any of your thoughts on these maps...tuners chime in, and if you have any maps to share that would be cool too... i think we should set up some sort of repository for them with descriptions...i could probably host it on my school webspace, but just as a download center (no webpage for descriptions...possible readme though).

Mark

[d112crzy]

im running 32* at 7000 rpms, wot. i usually run 87 octane and no pinging from me. I check my plugs often too.

I'll post some of my stuff tomorow after work. Im going to bed.

[mtnickel]

things i noticed just now...a lot of the maps we have and use have too much timing from 1000-2000 at high load...but no one really floors it at 1000rpm anyways...but low RPM and WOT can lead to detonation quite easily.

Other than that, MRX's basemap is pretty dang good minus the Weird jagginess of the high vacuum portion of the maps...but his are still in the general viscinity.

As for higher loads, the values are all pretty close but the stock maps take a lot of timing out near maximum torque as a detonation prevention (Considering worst case senario octanes probably). but with higher octane, that could be removed no doubt.

But still leaves me a little confused as to where to put my 0atm timing curves. I like the look of the p12 the best so will probably go with that with maybe slight adjustment to the shape (to more closely look like the P39)...then run about 1*/psi conservatively and get it on a dyno. Maybe disconnect the wastegate at first and spend a little time tuning 0atm WOT.

ANy thoughts appreciated.

[mtnickel]

Also, Turbo maps and NA maps will not look the same even in vacuum or 0atm.
REasoning...exhaust tuning...a turbo exhaust will have some 15psi in the exhaust manifold and only be at like 20% throttle...the NA will have very low backpressure and be at 100% throttle.
Different, more backpressure = more pumping loss and more combustion chamber heat and more detonation. Just a word to the wise.

Like if you put a big restrictor on the exhuast or like pinched your exhaust pipe shut...you may still have 0atm at the TB but the engine will react totally different to certain timing.


mark

[mtnickel]

added D112crzy's map ( i think...taken from xenocron repository).

[d112crzy]

that's not my current map actually. That's just not something I will reveal to EVERYONE.

If YOU or any other serious tuners want it, then PM me and I'll gladly share.

[d112crzy]

do any of you guys use any sort of detonation device when tuning? I'm gona go make myself a DET can sometime soon.

My car is down and will most likely be down for a long while. But I have a feeling that I may have some knock. I hope not tho.

But I'm really interested to see what MRX uses, since I know he tunes for a lot of people.

[mtnickel]

Ya...i'm definately gonna make some det cans too.
Wish i could afford like 3-4hrs for load tuning (at each Mbar and Rpm).

I'll most likely get some help and do about 2 hrs worth. will have all the AFR's really good going in though.

On a side note, how steady are your guys wideband readings. mine seems to jump around quite a bit. (LC-1) like while cruising will read randomly from 13.7-15.3 Jumps around, but the average comes up in my logging software.

mark

[d112crzy]

mine dont jump around THAT much. i try to get it within 1 point. I know some people that get it within .5 without any dyno or datalogs.

[NAiL05]

They have a DIY on the ping device somewhere on google. I looked it up seemed pretty easy to do. I just need to find the link again.

[mtnickel]

mine dont jump around THAT much. i try to get it within 1 point. I know some people that get it within .5 without any dyno or datalogs.

I get my averages good (to within about .3-.4 of desired)...just the raw readings fluctuate...ie. at 10in vac, and 3000rpm steady cruise...the reading will fluctuate.(average good at 14.5, but reads randomly around it quite a lot)...i've read a bit, and perhaps will throw a filter cap on to smooth it a bit.

Mark

[mtnickel]

TTT

any more thoughts on this...perhaps i should have put it in forced induction.

[MRX]

hmmm...u guys are getting very in depth. My main goal with vac timing and fuel is to of course perfect the 14.7 everywhere (can't be done absolutely EVERYWHERE but close) and get the timing to a suitable degree that won't stutter or break up. I don't think you'd notice much benefit at all by doing a load based dyno for every vac position. Just simply wouldn't be worth the money IMO

[mtnickel]

Just makes a difference when making generic boost ignition tables (at like .75*/psi)...reflects what the WOT curves will look like...but i guess that will be dealt with when it gets fully tuned.

Mark

[MRX]

only 0 vac will and its only efficient in the really low rpms actually. Since the turbo is forcing in air its changing the volumetric efficiency of the engine. This is why stock peak torque is around 3700-4000rpm area and my engine had peak torque at 4800 for example. Its a start for the WOT area but nothing like it. Besides if u were to do a load based dyno and try to tune vacuum at less than 0 vac u'd pretty much be wasting ur time because u could just be taking on the sections ur building into little by little instead.