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TEMP THREAD. Pre Boost Bible Launch.

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    TEMP THREAD. Pre Boost Bible Launch.

    Level One: Turbo Noobs.

    Basic Components of a Turbo Kit
    Wastegate (WG): Regulates the amount of boost (psi) the turbo is to produce. It does so by limiting the amount of exhaust flow driven directly at the turbocharger. The wastegate is hooked up to a vacuum source. There are two types of wastegates, internal and external.

    -Internal Wastegate: incorporated within the turbocharger. It is comprised of a wastegate flapper as well as actuator. The actuator has diaphragm that is connected to a vacuum source (charge pipe, intake manifold). When this source reaches the preset pressure, it will open the flapper and allow the excess exhaust flow to exit without running into the turbine.


    -External Wastegate: is separate form the turbo. Usually, it is mounted on the exhaust manifold. However, depending on the type of turbocharger used, it can be mounted on the WG flapper’s dump (advanced).


    Turbocharger: The heart of your turbo kit. They come in many different sizes and colors but they all have the same parts. The “dull” side is the turbine side of the turbo. It’s usually called the “hot side” because the engine’s exhaust gas is driven through it, which turns the turbine. The turbine is connected to a shaft, which is connected to another wheel, which is designed to draw in the air. This side is known as the compressor side. This side is responsible for drawing in the air and pressurizing it.



    Charge Pipes: The route for the compressed air from the turbo to the intake manifold.

    Turbo Manifold: routes the engine’s exhaust gases to the turbo. In the case of external wastegate applications, there is an extra pipe coming off the collector, with a flange. This is how you would tell an internal wastegate manifold (no flange) from an external wastegate manifold (pipe & flange).

    Ramhorn style Manifold

    Unequal length manifold

    The log style

    Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC): Intercooler that is mounted in front of the car. It is the optimal air-to-air intercooler due to its distance from the engine bay. They are also mounted in front of the car, usually behind the front bumper cover.


    Side Mount Intercooler (SMIC): Found in most stock applications. It employs the same principles as the FMIC, except is located inside the engine compartment. This intercooler is more discreet, however they are less efficient. Due to it being in the engine bay, they are subject to high temperatures.



    Blow Off Valve (BOV): Most people know these as the things that make the *PSSHT* sounds. True, however it plays a major role in protecting the turbo. See, when the throttle body(s) during shifts, the excess boost needs somewhere to go. The BOV opens and released the excess boost into the atmosphere.



    Fuel Management: There are many different types of fuel management available. Based on your budget as well as horsepower goals, you would pick which one best suits your setup.
    -Standalone ECUs: These are the most expensive of your options and the best. They have the capability of running your turbocharged application as if it were a stock application. However, this kind of comfort comes at a high price, usually in the thousands. Common manufacturers are Motec, AEM and Haltech.
    -Chipped ECUs: The affordable alternative to Standalones. Their cost can be from anywhere around 140-600 dollars, depending on the program. They come with features found in the standalone, however they cannot be modified as easily. When ever the user/tuner wants to change the tune, a new chip must be burned in order to do so.
    -Piggyback ECUs: These are good way of controlling your fuel needs. They get the name piggyback, because they are usually mounted on top of the stock ECU. They function by intercepting ECU signals and feedback and modifying it to suit your needs.
    -ECU Hacks: These are your VAFCs and SAFCs. These inputs are modified by the user and require quite a bit of knowledge to tune with. Unfortunately, by its nature the ECU is unaware of the altered fuel signal. This makes tuning very critical.
    -FMUs: Fuel Management Units are the cheapest but most inefficient way of modifying your fuel. They raise inline pressure to force more fuel into the cylinder every time the injectors open. Due to this, they are incredibly dificult to tune.


    Frequently Asked Questions

    What is the purpose of a Blow-off Valve?
    The BOV’s purpose is to protect the compressor from a condition called compressor surge. Compressor surge is a condition where excess boost has nowhere to go when the throttle body is closed between shifts. Repeated compressor surge erodes the fins of the compressor wheel and eventually can cause this:



    What is the purpose of a Wastegate?
    The purpose of a wastegate is to set the turbo to put out a desired amount of boost.

    What is a DSM manifold?
    Diamond Star Motors exhaust manifold, a.k.a. the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, and Plymouth Laser. The Accord and Prelude engines have a similar port pattern. This allows us to use the DSM exhaust manifold by simply redrilling to match the screw locations of the Accord/Prelude engines.

    What is the optimum compression for running a turbo?
    Depends on the tuner. Higher compression allows for a more efficient setup. Every psi will yield you more hp. However tuning these higher compression setups are very intense. In most cases, an engine builder will seek to lower the compression to allow for an easier tuning session.

    What’s a wastegate actuator?
    The wastegate actuator is part of the wastegate that pushes the flapper to allow the exhaust gas to bypass the turbo.

    What controls boost pressure?
    The wastegate controls the boost pressure.

    What does an intercooler do?
    When air is compressed, it becomes really hot. The intercooler’s purpose is to cool off this compressed air.

    What is turbo lag?
    Turbo lag is the time it takes for your turbo to crossover to boost and reach the desired psi (or point where its efficient)

    Who makes turbos (companies)?
    Garrett/AiResearch is the prominent maker of turbos. There are other companies like Mitsubishi, Toyota and Nissan that manufacture their own turbos for their cars.

    Can nitrous be used in conjunction with a turbo?
    Nitrous can definitely be used with a turbo as long as the tune of the setup can accommodate it. Nitrous generates plenty of extra heat. It is recommended that the block is properly built and coated to withstand such heat. Provisions like an oil-cooler would be beneficial in these kinds of setups.

    Is it necessary to upgrade the fuel system for turbo?
    It is in-fact necessary to upgrade your fuel system to accommodate turbos. The turbos put out more air. Without more fuel you will create a dangerously lean condition. To prevent such conditions, a fuel upgrade consisting of at least larger injectors should be made. The injectors are in the front line when it comes to turbo charging. There are other items such as FMU’s, FPR’s, Fuel pump, rails, and filters that can be considered based your power goal.

    What does sleeving do?
    Resleeving is a process in which an engine block is fitted with new cylinder walls. In F22 applications, it can allow us to use bigger bore pistons, as well as eliminate a condition known as cylinder walk. Cylinder walk is commonly found in open deck applications.

    What’s the difference between an open deck and a closed deck?
    An open deck block has its cylinder sleeves separate from the block castings. It makes the block lighter as well as cooler. However, it is not good for performance, as it allows cylinder walk or cylinder rocking. And example of a open deck block would be a F22Ax. A closed deck block is a block where the sleeves are pressed into the block casting. These blocks are stable under heavy boost pressure.

    What is a block guard?
    A inexpensive route to ensure the cylinder sleeves of an open deck block do not move while under boost. It usually is welded into the block.

    Should your piston heads be changed? If so, what is the difference between flat top, dish top, high dome, and low dome?
    Depending on your compression goals you would change your pistons. When looking at turbo, the optimal piston for ease of tuning is the dish tops. They generate the least compression out of the available choices.
    Last edited by KillerCam282; 01-24-2006, 08:12 PM.

    #2
    Frequently Asked Questions(cont'd)

    How do boost controllers work?
    They modify the vacuum that the wastegate is seeing so it alters the point in which the wastegate opens. A boost controller's lowest setting is your wastegate's default setting. You can only go higher than the default setting, not lower.

    How do all these parts work together?

    Courtesy G2IC Turbo guide

    1.The engine's waste gases turn the turbine wheel of the turbo which is connected to the compressor wheel by a shaft.

    2. The Compressor then draws in intake air which it compresses and shoots through an intercooler to be cooled off.

    3.The air if routed from the intercooler to the intake manifold of the engine.

    NOTE:The turbo in this diagram is oil cooled only, and has an internally wastegate.

    Which turbo is better for me?
    It all depends on your goals.

    If you are looking for a quck spool up for a street machine, its ideal to have one that spools up early in the band.

    For autocross and street strip cars, you want something that spools up midrange and stays until or close to redline.

    For a dragster, you want something that spools up late, to capitalize on top end power.

    What does a Turbo Timer do?
    A turbo timer is an electronic device that keeps your car on after the key is removed from the ignition. Its purpose is to cycle the oil around so that it can cool down the turbo and prevent a condition known as coking. Coking is when the oil sits in the turbo and "crusts" up. This not only will ruin the turbo, but the rest of the engine as well. Common manufacturers of turbo timers are Greddy, HKS, and Blitz.

    Now I know all this good stuff about boost!!! Which CB7 engine is best to turbo? A H22, F22A, F22b or H23?
    This also depends on your goals. They all can be reliable and potent warriors when they are built. All these engines have their advantages and disadvantages. I will explore the pros and cons to each.

    All Prelude and Accord engines: In stock form, they all have WEAK RINGLANDS. They will blow very easily if the tuner is negligent.

    The H22

    Pros:
    Abundance of Performance Parts
    Excellent Stock Cylinder Head Flow
    Large Powerband Can Support a Large Turbo
    VTEC Technology allows for streetability for most buildups.
    Dual Cam makes for refined tuning
    Most HP out of the bunch.
    Can idle properly even after a large cam upgrade.

    Cons:
    Expensive to build for turbo
    Stock 10-11:1 CR not friendly to boost
    FRM Bottom end will not last in high psi applications

    The Verdict: If you have the cash, this is an excellent motor to build up. It also will have better street drivability after a cam upgrade, versus all the other motor options.

    The H23
    Pros:
    Dual cam makes for better tuning.
    9.5 Stock Compression Ratio.
    Good parts selection available
    Most torque available from a Prelude engine.
    Accepts DSM manifolds
    Dual Runner Intake
    Pistons interchange with H22's
    Rods are F22's
    Closed Deck
    160 stock hp 152tq

    Cons:
    Revving restricted to 6800 rpms due to econo valve train.
    Not an abundance of these motors available

    The Verdict: Excellent Boost Candidate and makes great torque which is the reason why, its all to bad its the forgotten Prelude motor.

    The F22A1/4/6
    Pros:
    Very boost friendly stock CR of 8.8
    Inexpensive and available in all trim of CB7s
    Stock Iron Sleeves
    Accepts DSM manifold with redrilling
    In A6's case dual runner Intake Manifold
    Excellent single cam torque
    Quickest Powerband

    Cons:
    Weakest Aftermarket out of all the choices
    Single cam causes limited cam tuning
    Not well suited to larger turbines in stock form
    Economy designed Cylinder Head
    Open Deck causes Cylinder Walk.
    Lowest start of power out of all the choices

    The Verdict: Good foundation for a N/A to turbo conversion. Even better aftere money is spent on building it up.

    The JDM F22B DOHC
    Pros:
    Dual cam for fine tuning
    Inexpensive Swap in motor
    Uses USDM H23 parts for the cylinder Head
    And F22 parts for the engine block
    Dual Runner Intake Manifold
    9.2 Stock Compression Ratio
    Accepts Redrilled DSM manifold
    Cams are more aggressive than H23's

    Cons:
    Less torque than the H23 it replaces
    85mm pistons vs the 87mm the H23 has
    Timing maintainence
    Open Deck prone to cylinder walk in High boost apps

    The Verdict: Factory Hybrid from honda. H23 head on a F22A block. Excellent candidate for boost on stock internals.
    Last edited by KillerCam282; 01-26-2006, 02:42 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Level 2 introduction:
      Now that you have an idea on what turbo charging entails, you may have now decided to turbocharge your CB7. However, there is a whole new jargon that you still do not know as a turbo noob. This guide will introduce you to some of this turbo sub-language.

      Air-Fuel Ratio (AFR): Is the ratio of fuel to air in the combustion chamber. This is read by the oxygen sensor of your vehicle.

      -Stoichometric Mixture: Commonly referred to as "stoich", this AFR is the ideal in fuel consumption, emissions and power. In simpler terms, the engine waste virtually no fuel at this ratio. Most factory engines come tuned to run at this ratio while cruising. However in performance situtations, the ratio tends to differ +/-3 points in either direction.

      -Lean Mixture: is a condition when there is more air present than in the stoich mixture. This will raise the AFR's number above 14.7:1. In some cases a lean mixture can increase horsepower, however it also adds extra heat. You would find the use of lean mixtures more in naturally-aspirated applications simply because they can disperse of heat quicker than forced-induced applications.

      -Rich Mixture: is a condition when there is more fuel present in the AFR than the Stoich mixture. This lowers the AFR's number below the stoich mark of 14.7:1. A rich mixture can help cool down the engine in some applications. In Naturally-aspriated applications that have large strokes, a rich mixture helps keep the engine cool. Its even more important in applications with high compression. Where rich mixtures are seen prodominently is in most F/I applications. Due to compressed air having so much heat, the added fuel helps cool the engine and helps to prevent detonation.
      Last edited by KillerCam282; 01-26-2006, 03:12 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by rickyduckworth
        you make it sound like compressor surge is a "once and you're fucked" deal......

        you should add that it ERODES the fins each time it happens......increases wear on the turbo.........

        if some moron reads this and hears what he thinks is compressor surge, then he'll have a heart attack

        kinda like how people describe detonation........engines aren't weak bitches like maple.....give them a little credit
        Graphic pix huh? I am proof reading and editing it. As well as posting more in reply #2. Thanks for the heads up.

        Comment


          #5
          should add that cooler air makes more power, hence the use of an intercooler. the hotter the air, the more prone you are to detonation. Is there gonna be an ignition section??
          Shift_BOOST

          BOOM!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 92ex
            should add that cooler air makes more power, hence the use of an intercooler. the hotter the air, the more prone you are to detonation. Is there gonna be an ignition section??
            we will be getting there shortly. This is the noob section so far. It answers general questions that turbo noobs have.

            Comment


              #7
              Nice good work on that acclipseh23
              Originally posted by Makaveli2k
              Just goes to show, leave the JDM poses to the Nimble, sleek, asians. =)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by rickyduckworth
                you make it sound like compressor surge is a "once and you're fucked" deal......

                you should add that it ERODES the fins each time it happens......increases wear on the turbo.........

                if some moron reads this and hears what he thinks is compressor surge, then he'll have a heart attack

                kinda like how people describe detonation........engines aren't weak bitches like maple.....give them a little credit

                Don't bring me into the convo lol

                Comment


                  #9
                  that must have took a long time but it helps people learn man like me man im still learning on the whole turbo process.. but thx for posting that now I know a lil bit more after reading it haha
                  GOT REBEL?


                  "There are always two people in every picture: the photographer and the viewer."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Brilliant Idea!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nice work, luvin the collaboration.
                      HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        would this bit of info help? i know it helped my dumb ass...

                        stock wastegate opening pressures...not my work, used the search function at hmt.

                        Garrett T3 42/48 set at - 8psi

                        Most all chrysler 2.2l turbos w/ the goofy t3 all spool at - 5.5psi-6.5

                        TD04h (14b) - 8psi

                        .60/.63 Tbird/meurker/svo - 10psi

                        RHB5 from the Subaru and Probe - 8psi

                        84-88 nissan 300z t3 .60ar/.63ex. - 5psi

                        87-88 rx7 twin scroll turbo - 6.2psi

                        Mitsu TD04L(WRX) - 7 psi

                        t25 - 8psi

                        starion 14g Before 1987 - 7psi

                        starion 1987+ - 11 psi

                        garret t28 stage 1 - 8.5 psi

                        garret t28 stage 2 - 10.5psi

                        garret t28 stage 3 - 15 psi

                        K26 external – 14psi

                        Garrett T3 42/48 set at 8psi

                        GReddy 15g (mitsu td04h-15g) 5.5psi

                        CT26 5psi

                        My Old Ride Thread

                        Comment


                          #13
                          looks good man
                          h23a3 cb7 turbo sold

                          FS: 1 Piece JDM Headlghts blackhoused

                          My Members Ride !
                          New ride

                          '07 GTI Mk5 6spd

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Nice work and layout!.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Good info in this thread, I look foward to more
                              Honda-Tech Username: Lostcb7
                              The cb7tuner.com OG.

                              Comment

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