Announcement

**JDM_CB7_TX** · 01-04-2011, 07:51 AM

I remember that episode... It cuts off but at the end of that lap I believe they end up throwing on Hammonds F1 Wing that he bought and a wooden spliter that clarkson thought would help. Hillarious!

**bcjammerx** · 01-04-2011, 08:07 AM

the wood splitter was an honest attempt (I think) to improve track time...once it caught fire they pretty much joked around.

Part two is on YouTube part one at 7min was all I required for this thread.

Any ideas on my question? Sorry for the long post for a simple question, trying to explain my thought process

**JDM_CB7_TX** · 01-04-2011, 08:13 AM

Damn bro I have no clue. As far as stock settings all I would go for is Honda parts. Only thing I could think of is drop springs but I know you don't wanna go that route.

**JunyAccord** · 01-04-2011, 12:42 PM

maybe that minivan had so much interior weight and during those tight corners the van had some understeer.. kinda like someone running and making a sharp turn wearing a heavy backpack. Its hard to get balance with all that weight.

I dont know. I think that could be the reason why it was 3 sec. slower. Or a human error.

**Shadow1** · 01-04-2011, 01:08 PM

To honestly think that aftermarket suspension will slow you down is idiotic. Most if not all aftermarket suspension is made with lighter materials making them lighter than the OEM suspension components. And the same goes for the Aftermarket rotors. Have you ever held the aftermarket rotors in one hand and an OEM one in the other?

**mndude07** · 01-04-2011, 02:29 PM

Upgrading brakes and suspension makes you slower? Tell that to any racing team.

Some points:

Larger brake rotors will increase the mass that the engine has to spin, which rob you of horsepower. However, in most cases, unless the car is extremely underpowered, being able to spend less time braking will make up for the robbed power.

Aluminum fixed calipers are often lighter than stock, as are coilover systems and some spring/shock combos. Any reduction in unsprung weight is going to help.

Just slapping on parts like 98% of you do isn't going to always help the car though. No one knows what they're doing to their suspension geometry, creating roll center migration, making the car skate across uneven surfaces, handling unpredictably. And the people that think stiffer coilovers=better handling.....give me a break.

If you know what you're doing and set the car up properly and cover all design aspects, the car will be faster overall.

**F22HB** · 01-04-2011, 03:23 PM

Ugh. My car with f2 coilovers, poly bushings, and ingals camber kit would most certainly out-handle my car with stock suspension. It's a case by case basis.

**gloryaccordy** · 01-04-2011, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by mndude07 View Post

If you know what you're doing and set the car up properly and cover all design aspects, the car will be faster overall.

Lol @ a stock Accord being faster than a well modded one.

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=70367

Odds are the suspension they chose was too stiff, making the Avantime jump right into understeer.

Plus, what are your plans for the car? Are you racing it? Driving it on the street? Why do you need to be measurably faster?

No no no no no

**bcjammerx** · 01-05-2011, 04:38 AM

Thanks for the kind words in light of the data presented...

Any way the stig is always a professional racing driver. indy driver was what the white stig did I believe

Regardless of their joking these guys didn't just throw parts on, most of them do actually know a thing or two about car modification...now I would say they may not have "set up" the suspension fully...they may also have.

As for a modded accord this car was all stock except for those suspension parts.

They did after all take a 5-7 year old car and recovered like 30+ HP it lost as a result of age.

I have yet to see anyone else do THAT kind of test were the only mods are suspension and then have a professional driver track run both...lol...sure one car is not a good sample size I still think it holds value...but of course that car is not a cb7, I know our cars respond to suspension mods...but while you say your accord with bigger brakes and full coilovers would be faster on the track than one with good stock suspension (after all that car they used was not 20 years old). how do you know? I mean it makes since when you think about it...These guys assumed it would help too and they were wrong. Did you compare track times before and after? I would not just assume suspension mods will improve your track time. If I ever get better suspension I will try to compare before and after myself...However I'm not a pro driver as the stig is.

Hey it did not make since to me either, or to the TG guys...but there it is...that is why I will not just assume those mods would help. No bad feelings towards those with these suspension mods I just do not see enough of a point to spend the extra cash on a non full race/track car...sure if you had loads of extra power I guess...but even mildly built up engine wise...dunno

Either way my point is I am not making mine a track car, in which case full coilovers would be the least of my modifications. I plan on having 200hp eventually and just makin it fun to drive. I do not believe there is any point in getting full coilover or bigger brakes on this car since it is not all out race. someday I may decide to go that route with the suspension but Nit currently

Guess I'll keep looking for springs, the spring shock combo through Honda is over $700, maybe just the springs alone would not be bad. I still have to replace the bushings as well.

Any one that knows of good springs (other than Honda) let me know if you do not mind

**gloryaccordy** · 01-05-2011, 11:17 AM

I don't think you have to drive on a track to justify getting certain parts.

Stock Accord brakes SUCK. One or two hard stops, they're useless.

Stock Accord springs/shocks are actually kind of decent, but if you ever plan on pushing the car you will come up against a lot of lean & wobble. Most of the coilovers out are shit TBH, but a set of Koni Yellows and even mild springs like Neuspeed Sports will really button things down w/o being too harsh. The car will ride nice, and feel more comfortable as you will have more confidence behind the wheel.

I question the value of sway bars on the street, even though they def do their job.

You say you plan to make 200HP... the Accord suspension components (most importantly the BRAKES) were made to deal w/about half that power. So in your case upgrading suspension parts is also a matter of safety. You will have a 150 MPH car with 110 MPH brakes... not a good idea. A car has to be a complete cohesive package, and leaving something as critical as the suspension out of the equation seems silly.

This TG segment means little to nothing. There are a million reasons the car could have been slower with the mods. 99% of CB7Tuners won't step foot on a road course anyway; they just want a better looking + more fun to drive car. Bottom line is there is a lot of value in the right brake/suspension mods.

---------------------------------------

It seems like you are trying to justify cheaping out. Pls don't. If anything it would make more sense for you to get shocks and keep your stock springs as that would make a bigger + safer difference. If you can't afford to do it right, don't do it at all. The only shocks I recommend are Koni Yellows or Koni STR.Ts, combined w/whatever spring (not coilover sleeve, unless its GC) you have a taste for. An upgrade to CL or Prelude brakes w/Brembo blanks and good pads would also help.

**bcjammerx** · 01-05-2011, 07:06 PM

very good points. thank you very much! Very thoughtful and well said, I must agree with you

I want to spend no more than $450 for shocks and springs...any more and I'll get super cup kit. I would not cheap on suspension parts but what Honda asks is usually outrageous. I may go ahead and just get the supercup kit...dunno depends on if I find good spring replacements

**gloryaccordy** · 01-05-2011, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by bcjammerx View Post

very good points. thank you very much! Very thoughtful and well said, I must agree with you

I want to spend no more than $450 for shocks and springs...any more and I'll get super cup kit. I would not cheap on suspension parts but what Honda asks is usually outrageous. I may go ahead and just get the supercup kit...dunno depends on if I find good spring replacements

If you're disappointed with the Supercup kit w/Sport Springs, I'd be very surprised. Definitely worth the money. I haven't ridden on them, but from what I hear the Koni STR.Ts are good too. Pair them with some Neuspeed Sports/Tein S. Techs/Skunk 2s and you should be good (though slightly out of your budget)

**bcjammerx** · 01-07-2011, 08:07 AM

Well I have budgeted 700 for JUST shocks and springs but I kept thinking of that episode, and in the future I may have to upgrade susp/brakes even more once i add power for safety sake...whether they slow me or not.

I figured if a stock replacement cost over 450 I would just get the super cup since it is so well spoken of.

But if I can stay below that and still get OEM quality and safety hen I can install it sooner. The more I spend on shocks and springs the longer I will have to wait to install while I save up for the poly or ureth bushings...which I am getting regardless of need

Since I am not NEEDING such a good suspension (lucky to be making 120hp LOL) I figured buying an OEM replacement parts would "perform" fine for what my engine and I can and are willing to do...and capable of doing.

With my ball joints and control arms I paid a little more than I would for OEM replacements to get SPC and Megan racing adjustable camber/toe front and back. I like to upgrade to better parts as things wear out but on this I think the "upgrade" will have to wait until I really need it...big brakes and all.

Until such time I want to get the most bang for my buck, I figured bilstein would be good OEM replacements and last and be safe, I just gotta find some springs...hose are the issue...no info on non dropping OEM springs really that I can find.

But if I cannot find good/safe OEM replacement for under 450 then I will put the suspension restore on hold untill I get both the super cup and then get bushings...then install all at once. A while later I will save p for and go ROH... then save for the "big" 11" brakes from donor car.

I can spend $700 is the thing, I've been saving for suspension as hat needs attention now. I can spend a little more but that will push the install day further back, as i do not quit have 700 yet. and as this is not a track car, why put 700 worth of shock/springs that are not really necessary and in all honesty may not really help me be faster than brand new OEM? Someday maybe.

At least I made my mind up and I am determined to restor and slightly upgrade the cb instead of trying to gt something newer...which is another reason for watching the cost, she's my low budget dd...wiu some fun sprinkled on

Thanks for all the reads/replies this far!!

**mtnbikaah** · 01-07-2011, 10:01 AM

a spring suggestion:

http://jdmultimate.com/neuspeed/neus...t/g-54590.aspx

i do not own these springs to vouch for their performance.

Announcement

Upgraded brakes/suspension makes u slower

Upgraded brakes/suspension makes u slower

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment