Coilover, 5 Lug Conversion, Camber Kit...

[Straight Success]

Okay, so I'm on my way to Pepboys to get an alignment printout to see exactly which camber kit to purchase. Once I get the printout, I should have the camber kit installed within the next week or two (either Ingalls or SPC ball joint style).

Now I pretty much have all of the things I need for my 5 Lug conversion with the exception of rotors. I'm in no rush, but it'll get done sometime soon (I'm thinking before winter hits hard). I'm probably gonna ride the steelies through the winter.

Now, after I get my alignment, that's when the conversion takes place.

What I need to know, if anyone knows for sure, will I have to get a second alignment once I complete the conversion with the new knuckles ('96 Odyssey), or will it still be in specs (I know this may be difficult to answer as the geometry might change)?

I'm looking to save money by not paying for two alignments in the same 1-2 month period.

['93CB7Ex]

get another alignment. i just got mine done today and after my 5 lug it threw it way out.

[mndude07]

Do it all at once then get one alignment. Changing out your knuckles will most likely throw the alignment off some since the CB7 doesn't use precision shims or anything like that.

[JaK FRoSTWhiTE]

Firestone has the $150 unlimited alignments.

Make sure they have the in-ground alignment racks.

[Straight Success]

Firestone has the $150 unlimited alignments.

Make sure they have the in-ground alignment racks.

They told me that that don't do alignments for cars with coilovers and camber kits.

Edit: I'll be dropping the back about 0.5" or so to level out my car. I'm going to adjust it where it still has a slight slant toward the front. I think my front is dropped about 2.25" or so.

I'll call around.

[Accrdwgnguy]

When I bought my Firestone Lifetime alignment, I told the manager I bought it from that I was going to be installing a camber kit and lowering the car more. He said thats cool. Now if they give me bs when I come back with all that installed I'll raise hell.

[Straight Success]

Well, either today or tomorrow the rear is going down about a half inch or so. I'm cleaning up my place today, and if I have free time, I'll get started on it. he guys at Pep Boys told me to wait to drop the rear more before I get a printout (although I new that). It's only $23 for them to throw it on the rack, and give the me the printed specs of where it is currently.

[Straight Success]

Okay. Went and took some measurements to see if I want to make some final rear adjustments. After measuring a stock CB's height, I think I'm about 1.75" dropped in the front and 1.0" in the rear. I didn't get to check on a level suface, so I'm kinda skeptical about those numbers. I have a 1 finger gap in front, and about a 2.5 to 3 finger gap in the rear. Does anyone know if this sounds correct with the amount that I think I'm dropped?

As soon as I get some solid stock specs, and some level ground, I think I can make final adjustment. As of this moment, I'm really leaning towards lower the back another 0.25".

[Straight Success]

Okay. Here are the updates and corrections which were taken while on a very level surface.

Front is 12.5" from bottom edge of fender to center of wheel (measured 3 times with extreme care and accuracy).

Rear is exactly 13.5" from bottom edge of fender to center of wheel.

The rear is coming down exactly 0.5".

Then I'll get my alignment printout.

[scanlessfool]

Save your money and don't get a camber kit. Correct the toe by setting it to 0 and you will be okay. Camber does not eat the wear the tire as quick as toe.

[Straight Success]

Save your money and don't get a camber kit. Correct the toe by setting it to 0 and you will be okay. Camber does not eat the wear the tire as quick as toe.

Hardly. I know a lot about suspension, not everything, but I've learned a fair amount from researching, reading, designing, and building, full suspension set-ups for my school's FSAE team. Camber WILL eat at the inside of your tires.

The amount of lateral friction combined with grip as forces tend to push/pull outward from the center of the car is what eats at the inside of your tires.

[Tnwagn]

Hardly. I know a lot about suspension, not everything, but I've learned a fair amount from researching, reading, designing, and building, full suspension set-ups for my school's FSAE team. Camber WILL eat at the inside of your tires.

The amount of lateral friction combined with grip as forces tend to push/pull outward from the center of the car is what eats at the inside of your tires.

If you are running something absurd, such as -4.0 or greater, in regard to camber you will begin to see wear effects. However, if you can dial in everything else then your camber isn't going to wear your tires at any abnormal rate. Perhaps you are on your school's FSAE team and I am sure you have done your research, but what I am saying is based on the experiences of a number of people I know. The tolerances and effects you will see on the vehicles in your FSAE program are much tighter than those of a passenger car like a CB7.

Get the Firestone Unlimited Alignment deal, it will pay for itself in no time at all.

[mndude07]

Wait...sorry no offense but you're in FSAE and you asked this question? If you remove the entire upright from the race car, don't you re-check alignment? You have your shims and everything, but the street car doesn't. There is slop everywhere.

What school?

[scanlessfool]

If you are running something absurd, such as -4.0 or greater, in regard to camber you will begin to see wear effects. However, if you can dial in everything else then your camber isn't going to wear your tires at any abnormal rate. Perhaps you are on your school's FSAE team and I am sure you have done your research, but what I am saying is based on the experiences of a number of people I know. The tolerances and effects you will see on the vehicles in your FSAE program are much tighter than those of a passenger car like a CB7.

Exactly, and thank you . As I said, it's toe that kills your tires.

[Straight Success]

Wait...sorry no offense but you're in FSAE and you asked this question? If you remove the entire upright from the race car, don't you re-check alignment? You have your shims and everything, but the street car doesn't. There is slop everywhere.

What school?

I asked because I never compared the arms. I don't know if the geometry was/is the the same, hence the reasoning for my question. Yes, the inside of the hub is the same exact diameters and dimensions (Accord and Odyssey), but I was unsure if the knuckles had the same exact design. I haven't had the privilege like some who had the Odyssey and Accord knuckle side-by-side to compare.

...and to answer your question, it really depends. On our previous designs, caster was fixed as it usually is on most if not all suspensions. The camber and toe has rules that it has to abide by with a degree/respect to FSAE standards.

A SAE car is similar to a F-1 car, just dialed down a great deal. Shims aren't needed if everything in machined in house and mocked up in Solid Works then real life.

When replacing stock knuckles on a '93 Accord, the camber and toe will change ever so slightly (maybe ~0.25*) because of Honda machining clearances and tolerances (assuming using OEM parts). Yes, an alignment would be in order to restore everything back to stock specs, but a change in suspension geometry of about 0.25* isn't going to DRASTICALLY affect the the common problems we are faced with regards to toe and camber.

Honestly, if I were just installing new Accord knuckles to replace the old ones, I wouldn't personally get an alignment until I rotated my tires and noticed abnormal wear or had a noticeable problem (which I know how to check for, and I do this about once every two months on average).

So, by the notion in the paragraph above, if the knuckles had the same exact geometry, I'd just wait a while to get an alignment unless problems arose. I inspect my tires/brakes/suspension thoroughly ever so often, so I can foresee potential problems or try to eliminate the before they start. However, an alignment in my case is NEEDED because I'm dropped 2.5", and a camber kit (rear and front) is getting installed.

I never had to get an alignment on not one car that I've ever owned (including my SE which I owned for 5 years) even with changing bushing/brakes/etc. As stated before, I've done tons of reading and research, even design work, but this is my 1st time ever doing suspension work to one of my own cars.

Oh, and BTW, Temple University. We haven't had a team compete in about 5 years or so (let alone a finished car). I joined in Jan. and been going hard ever since. Maybe, just maybe with me busting my ass for the last 6 or so months, we'll have a functioning car to compete in 2012.

2012 FSAE rules comes out in two.5 weeks. The rules are very important as I/we plan to stick to them like white on rice. Food for though, our team is about 4-5 people big, so... we have to work much harder than other universities.