Camber Adjustment Question

[BreckAConner]

I bought new upper and lower control arms, inner and outer tie rods, new tie rod bushings, and megan coilovers. I have the coilovers on already. I'm putting my other stuff on this evening. I want to know if it's possible to adjust the camber to 0 without a camber kit. The car is lowered a little bit under where stock sits. I can raise the car if needed, but I wasn't sure if anything else in the suspension area controls camber at all? I'm about to buy new tires and I want even tire wear, this car is my daily driver.

[PakaloloHonda]

The only way to get a good true camber after lowering, even a lil bit,
is to take it (after tires) to a shop, if the shop that installed the tires doesn't have one,
a known and well respected alignment shop in your area.

Good of you also replacing all those parts on your CB7, as those parts are prolly original.

[BreckAConner]

The only way to get a good true camber after lowering, even a lil bit,
is to take it (after tires) to a shop, if the shop that installed the tires doesn't have one,
a known and well respected alignment shop in your area.

Good of you also replacing all those parts on your CB7, as those parts are prolly original.

So I don't need a camber kit with even a little bit of camber? If that the case that really takes some weight off me. I'm just trying to get this thing reliable. I have a like a 100 more things I need to replace. :/

Now with my CB9 it's really low, and I know for fact I'm going to need a camber kit for that sucker.

[PakaloloHonda]

So I don't need a camber kit with even a little bit of camber? If that the case that really takes some weight off me. I'm just trying to get this thing reliable. I have a like a 100 more things I need to replace. :/

Now with my CB9 it's really low, and I know for fact I'm going to need a camber kit for that sucker.

I run a -2 on one side and a neg 1 on the other up front. I'm quite low on my Function n Form C/O
and I have a small amount of wear on both sides. I've got 40,000km's on them,
and the fronts should be replaced .. the rears however have never worn un-evenly.
Even with my ole sedan and the Eibach Sportline kit, the rears were fine.
But I'm no pro shop. What I am saying is, after you install everything
take it to a shop .. there is no question that you will need to be aligned ..
Whether you need a camber kit or not, is to be determined ..

It's the very last step. After torqueing everything down to spec .. balancing tires, etc .. align it!

[sonikaccord]

Negative sir, you need a kit. Our cars do not have camber adjustment stock, however the rear has the washer trick. Also, a couple of threads below this one is my DIY alignment thread. I hope to build the jig this weekend.

[PakaloloHonda]

Our cars do not have camber adjustment stock,

elaborate, please ..

[sonikaccord]

The stock front upper control arms that originally come on the Accord have no provisions for adjusting camber...at least that I've found.

[PakaloloHonda]

The stock front upper control arms that originally come on the Accord have no provisions for adjusting camber...at least that I've found.

Well, what are they adjusting when they do a toe/camber alignment then?
And aren't toe and camber 2 different things?

[sonikaccord]

They are only adjusting toe. Yes, toe and camber are two different settings. We do have a stock caster adjustment...only slightly though.

[illinois_erik]

since you just did the front to save a few bucks get a Thrust line alignment. Itll be redundant to get a "total" alignment since the ass is sloppy still.

also there are two styles of front camber adjustment options a movable ball joint, theres 2, ones like -1 to +1 the other extreme one will handle about -2.5 to +3.0. The other style is the control arm anchor replacements, this quality supplier also has two flavors of those.

Stempf 35710 -.75 to +1

Stempf 35730 +1.25 to +3

Then theres SPC..ingalls etc. I went with SPC extreme UBJ's that are pressed into the stock (better metal stamping) UCA for my stuff, but they were like 89 bucks a piece. but theyre high quality..
My gf's CD i got for her I got some low number adjustable UBJ's for about 30 bucks a piece off the bay. Theyre still looking great. Again i wanted to reuse the oem UCA stampings and the anchor bushings were in good shape.so i just got those since they wernt much more then regular bushings and I might drop it a bit eventually.

when you get to the rears

they have UCA's with turnbuckles, mine I got "wicked tuning" brand, but Stempf also sells shim kits with the bolts
stempf 46-2160 up to +1.50 contains (2) 1/16" shim = .20+ (2) 1/8" = .40+

dorman or whoever also has reg and extreme RUCAS ones a straight turnbuckle, the others got a crook in it
Once you get to that point (and I highly suggest the bushings back there, I just pulled my 93 se's whole rear assembly the other day the trailing arm bushings were totally shot..and i never "felt" it) Then go back and get the "total" alignment and you should be good for a long while and ride better then if it was all brand new from the floor.

also if and when you do, it be good practice to pick up the rear toe adjustment bolts to have on hand since they usually seize up pretty bad and more times then not the alignment guy will snap them or..avoid them (which we dont want) or if you do bushings theyll be good to have. antiseezed up well for the technician's ease. a happy alignment guy is a good alignment, if shits seized or snapping he will get pissed and get your shit out as fast as possible lol.

[Corweena]

To answer your original question....no there is not factory camber adjustment on our cars. The "washer trick" for the rear is essentially replacing the bolts that hold the rear UCA to the frame with longer ones, and running a few washers in between to push the arm out more.....essentially reducing the amount of camber. It has its limits though.


From what it sounds like OP, you really aren't that low. You can most likely get away without camber kits. I've had my car lowered for 4 years now, and have yet to buy a camber kit. My first drop was 1.8in on Eibach Sportlines, and now I'm on Koni/GC coilovers and dropped around 3in.

All this time, I have not had any significant tire wear issues. The key to preventing uneven wear is to keep the toe in spec. Camber in and of itself does not cause the tires to wear evenly at a significant rate (this is assuming you are running natural camber, not -10 degrees like some idiots). Toe will eat through tires in a matter of months. And when you combine the two....that is when really bad tire wear occurs.

I purchased a lifetime alignment from a local shop. Every time I adjust or change my suspension settings, I take it in for an alignment. Have them set the toe to 0, and I'm good to go. No uneven wear. At $200, its a great investment.....considering regular alignments are $80 a piece.

That is what I would suggest doing. Get everything installed. Get the car aligned. Talk to the tech at the shop and make sure they can adjust everything within spec. If they can't, and you need to change something out, or just want a camber kit, no worries....you have the lifetime alignment and can go any time you need to. Well worth the money in my opinion.

[johnl]

The stock front upper control arms that originally come on the Accord have no provisions for adjusting camber...at least that I've found.

Yet it is possible to adjust the front camber without adding any 'adjusters'.

To do this you need to elongate the four bolt holes in each upper wishbone that attach the wishbone pressing to the two chassis mounts. This can be done with a rats' tail file. With elongated holes, when reattaching the wishbone you should use larger and thicker than standard washers under the bolt heads and nuts, to spread the load around the elongated hole into the metal around the hole. Thin / smaller washers (i.e. the stock items) will deform into the elongated holes when the bolts are tightened, thicker / larger ones won't. The faces of the chassis mount bush 'crush tubes' are big enough, matching the washers to the crush tube diameter would be fine.

This will work because the loads at the upper wishbone are not all that great, certainly an order of magnitude less than those seen at the lower control arm, if the bolts are properly tightened then the wishbone won't move in use (mine never do).

If the slotted holes allow the wishbone pressing to be moved laterally by 1cm then the change in camber will be 1°, i.e. 1mm of lateral wishbone relocation = 0.1° (or very very close, from memory it's actually 1cm = 1.1°, so 1mm = 0.11&#176.

If the wishbone is moved outward (decreasing negative camber) then there are no chassis clearance issues, but if inward (increasing negative camber, which with a lowered car you probably won't be doing unless trying to match a greater negative camber on the other side) then the inner edges of the wishbone can get very close to or actually touch the chassis, so some judicial grinding may be in order (on the inner end of the wishbone, not the chassis...).

Any such 'adjustment' (i.e. grinding at the end of the wishbone) should still leave enough metal around the holes that the wishbone isn't weakened, i.e. the holes shouldn't be too close to the edges / end of the wishbone, don't grind too much metal off. Keep in mind that the wishbone is mounted in rubber bushes, some chassis clearance must be allowed to account for rubber deflection in the bushings.

Also, if the wishbone is moved significantly outward to decrease negative camber then the elongated hole will approach the inner edge of the wishbone, and you don't want the hole to get too close and weaken the metal. Leave a reasonable amount of 'meat' between the edge of the elongated hole and the innermost edges of the wishbone (I would say no less than 8mm).

Also, if increasing positive camber (moving wishbone significantly inward) it's possible for the wishbone to contact the chassis mount. You need to maintain clearance between the mounts and the wishbone pressing, and leave enough room to account for compliance in the rubber bush. Clearance can be increased here by removing wishbone metal near the outside of the of the chassis mount, where the wishbone 'wraps' around the mount (and no sharp corners where metal has been removed, radius is needed to avoid stress risers).

Before filing the holes to elongate them, ascertain exactly how much the wishbone needs to be moved, and carefully measure and mark the metal on the wishbone, and file to the measured marks.

There is a limit to what can be done, but a significant camber change is possible, with care. Of course any such modification is done at your own risk, Don't touch it if you are unsure of what you're doing...

[sonikaccord]

That's a good free mod if you are comfortable with cutting metal away, but it sounds like it's doing the same thing an anchor bolt style kit would do. Then again if you are creative, you should be able to fab up a sort of camber plate and you get to use the OEM balljoint.

[Corweena]

Then again if you are creative, you should be able to fab up a sort of camber plate and you get to use the OEM balljoint.

Camber plates do not work on double wishbone suspension setups....only on MacPherson strut setups.

Reason being, in a double wishbone suspension, the shock/spring play no part in alignment. That is done by the Upper Control Arm. Changing the angle of the shock/spring will do nothing.





Now, with a MacPherson strut setup, there is no UCA, so the camber is adjusted by changing the angle of the shock/spring by way of camber plates.

[sonikaccord]

I'm not talking about a camber plate in the traditional sense. I mean taking johnl's suggestion, fabbing up a thick metal plate with the aforementioned slots so that you could move the pivot point of the UCA and keep some strength while allowing greater range of adjustment. It sounds like a great mod if done right.

That is good info that you posted though.