daily driver /race setup 15s vs 17s ..40 vs 45 vs 50

[93EXaesthetic]

well my accord is my daily driver...occasianaly i race at night if the next car over is up to it...or just for fun i like to hear my CAI scream on bridges..etc..where sounds bounces back......also my driving conditions vary...from city pothole...to flat straightaways... you get my point. Well i used to run 17'' on a 40 setup..until a pothole put my rims out of service....now im running 15's on 60 setup...i often find i lose traction on the rear wheels on sharp turns...have wheel flex on turns...and have to much up and down motion...just like this smiley... .well now im thinking about redoing my whole tire setup this is what im thinking of doing..and can you tell me if this is a wise choice in tires.

rim diameter?
well im thinking of running 15' or 16 inch rota slipstreams.....i beleive the 15 are lighter than any 17 inch model...thats the only advantage i can think of getting a smaller diameter rim...are there any other advantages??? other than lighter size?? or does having a larger diameter rim give me an advantage over a smaller one?

tire size 40 through 60 which size?
im thinking of running either a 45 or 50 setup...i think 55 or 60 would have to0 much wheel flex and lose on traction just like my 60's now...but how much protection do i need for potholes?? other than swerving?? will 45 be sufficient if i hit a pothole dead on??....and various daily city driving...

right now im more focused on controlling my car than adding power...so i feel this is my next project..any input would help..thanks team!

[deckeda]

Seems like you want absolutes but for a wide variety of driving conditions. Channel your thoughts toward compromise, because any thing you do will be one anyway.

If you've lost traction on the street with 15s here are some possibilities:

1) Your tires were shit
2) You drove to fast
3) Your suspension isn't up to it
4) Perhaps 1, 2 and 3 --- if so please stay where you are and don't come near me.

And wheel flex happens on steelies, not so much alloys. Tire size has nothing to do with wheel flex, real or perceived. If an alloy wheel bends while you drive it it's probably broken.

The "up-and-down" motion is yer shocks mostly. And springs. Bushings.

Wheel width, not diameter, plays a bigger role in grip because it means the tire can be wider --- but that assumes all else is equal, which it isn't. What I'm saying is just because one tire is wider than the other doesn't make it better.

If performance tires are what you're after, you'll find a greater variety for 16 and 17 rims, because for our cars that assumes 50 and 40-series rubber.

You've got a scattershot approach going here, which is ripe for failure. Slow down and take the basics one at a time.

[Gen4Acclude]

dont flex your shit with large diameter rims you will fuck your axles up 15-16 cool 17 and up never, aspecially if you have a open differential which im sure you do, smaller rims will allow the engine to rev faster then larger rims cause it takes more time to make the larger rims up to speedas the small ones due to increase in mass

[uncle_el]

1st, fix the driver before you fix the car.
2nd, upgrade your suspension before you upgrade your wheels.
3rd, once you've done the 1st two, you shouldn't have a problem with your wheels regardless of what size they are.

Seems like you want absolutes but for a wide variety of driving conditions. Channel your thoughts toward compromise, because any thing you do will be one anyway.

If you've lost traction on the street with 15s here are some possibilities:

1) Your tires were shit
2) You drove to fast
3) Your suspension isn't up to it
4) Perhaps 1, 2 and 3 --- if so please stay where you are and don't come near me.

And wheel flex happens on steelies, not so much alloys. Tire size has nothing to do with wheel flex, real or perceived. If an alloy wheel bends while you drive it it's probably broken.

The "up-and-down" motion is yer shocks mostly. And springs. Bushings.

Wheel width, not diameter, plays a bigger role in grip because it means the tire can be wider --- but that assumes all else is equal, which it isn't. What I'm saying is just because one tire is wider than the other doesn't make it better.

If performance tires are what you're after, you'll find a greater variety for 16 and 17 rims, because for our cars that assumes 50 and 40-series rubber.

You've got a scattershot approach going here, which is ripe for failure. Slow down and take the basics one at a time.

well said.

[93EXaesthetic]

1) haha...ok uncle el..upgrade the driver..i think i can take you on any track in the u.s ..hahah..that was a good one tho...i see you are a moderator but that doesnt make you an expert!

2) I have already upgraded suspension...Kyb AGX with eibach sportlines..and full camber kit front and rear

3) I have gone from 17 inch rims with 40's to 15 inch with 50's..and they are alloy..excuse me i meant tire flex ..not wheel flex...when im on turns i experience loss of traction.and a lot of lean...that i didnt get with my 40..low proz .they are firestone affinities..not z-rated but are all year round tire..with plenty of tread

- so far the only relevant information i have gotten was the fact i should get wider tires for grip this is one piece of information i will look into..possible go from my 195 alloys...to 215 slipstreams and the other piece of relevant information i have received was not to go with 17's or up..

-as far as bounce goes....i experience a lot..now that i have switched back to my alloys with 60's on them..i say that this is caused by the 60' tires....and they allow a lot of room for bounce...i have kyb agx's and they are fine..i didnt experience bounce until i went from 40's to 60's..the way i see it..more air..more bounce...pls correct me if im wrong here....im thinking of a basketball ..more air more bounce.

-thanks for the RELEVEANT information people...! also thats what im trying to do find a compromise tire setup...not to thin of a tire where a pothole will fuck my rim..but not to thick where i will bounce or lose traction...thanks again!

-

[deckeda]

It's true that going from a 40-series to 50 or 60 series will make the car feel less responsive --- that's of course sidewall flex. And by extension, a bit of extra lean. However, real "lean reduction" comes from front and rear anti-sway bars and good bushings.

You didn't mention the Sportlines and AGX at first, do you also have front and rear anti-sway bars and good bushings? If so maybe you need strut bars? Who knows --- you seem to be up on all this already.

The Firestone Affinity is perhaps not the best at gripping tire out there. Even when new it isn't gonna grip like some other tires. New sneakers would probably still do wonders.

Speaking of grip, you mentioned possibly going from 195 to 215. That's nice, and better tires are probably out there in a 215 width as opposed to 195, but if you don't choose wisely you could wind up with less grip --- like I said, wider isn't necessarily better.

All this talk of bouncing. Some of it is due to how low your car is, and some of it is due to tire flex, sure. Play with your AGX settings. If for example maxed out feels better but isn't enough, you'll need something stiffer such as Koni Yellows.

[zipcreature]

225/50/15. Falken Ziex. http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...42&rd=15&ar=50 $69.

- Zipcreature

[uncle_el]

1) haha...ok uncle el..upgrade the driver..i think i can take you on any track in the u.s

..hahah..that was a good one tho...i see you are a moderator but that doesnt make you an expert!

2) I have already upgraded suspension...Kyb AGX with eibach sportlines..and full camber kit front and rear

3) I have gone from 17 inch rims with 40's to 15 inch with 50's..and they are alloy..excuse me i meant tire flex ..not wheel flex...when im on turns i experience loss of traction.and a lot of lean...that i didnt get with my 40..low proz .they are firestone affinities..not z-rated but are all year round tire..with plenty of tread

- so far the only relevant information i have gotten was the fact i should get wider tires for grip this is one piece of information i will look into..possible go from my 195 alloys...to 215 slipstreams and the other piece of relevant information i have received was not to go with 17's or up..

-as far as bounce goes....i experience a lot..now that i have switched back to my alloys with 60's on them..i say that this is caused by the 60' tires....and they allow a lot of room for bounce...i have kyb agx's and they are fine..i didnt experience bounce until i went from 40's to 60's..the way i see it..more air..more bounce...pls correct me if im wrong here....im thinking of a basketball ..more air more bounce.

-thanks for the RELEVEANT information people...! also thats what im trying to do find a compromise tire setup...not to thin of a tire where a pothole will fuck my rim..but not to thick where i will bounce or lose traction...thanks again!

-

my current wheel/suspension setup:
omnipower coilovers
neuspeed front upper strut bar
suspension techniqe front and rear sway bars
dc sports rear lower tie bar
15 x 7 wheels with 195/55/15 tires

used to run neuspeed sport springs with koni yellow neuspeed edition shocks with the same wheels, strut bar, sway bars, and rear lower tie. before that, i had the same suspension with 16 x 7 wheels with 205/60/16 wheels. before that i had the same suspension with 17 x 7 wheels with 215/45/17 tires. before that i had neuspeed sport springs with kyb gr-2 shocks and 17 x 7 wheels...

i've run more sets of wheels, and by extension wheel/tire combos, in one year, from 15s to 17s, in 10 months than most people will ever run on the life of their car. add to that i've driven from atlanta to l.a. and back on my neuspeed/koni set up. do i have the best set up in the world? no, but it works for me and i love it. suffice to say, i think i know a little about the subject.

deckeda's already pointed out a number of key points, that i'll just list:

1. quality of the tire you're currently running
2. wider's not necessarily better
3. your suspension still has areas that need improvement

things deckeda didn't ask/point out:
1. tire pressure
2. quality of the wheels you have or had in the past

again, i think you should upgrade the driver 1st, upgrade the suspension 2nd, upgrade the wheels last. and again, once you do those 2, the wheel/tire combo really shouldn't matter too much, it should just be a matter of preference, rather than necessity.

[azian21485]

1. street racing is ***...stop

2. wheels don't flex, tires do

3. wheel and tire setup is MUCH more important than suspension...always have been and always will be

there's a bit of misleading info in this thread..but oh well

[deckeda]

3. wheel and tire setup is MUCH more important than suspension...always have been and always will be

there's a bit of misleading info in this thread..but oh well

I agree that tires can make the single biggest difference --- perhaps this is what you meant, azian --- but I disagree with the notion that they are "much more important than suspension".

To continue a bit with the uncle el/deckeda luv fest, I think his last point bears repeating: it should just be a matter of preference, rather than necessity.

What that means to me, is that your suspension is your foundation --- that which enables good tires to do their thing better. Sticky performance tires can mask several suspension ills (mostly because they have good grip) but will ultimately be limited by what the suspension dictates.

I'll give you two examples of cars I remember well, several years ago. We had a '91 Civic sedan DX, bone stock. It handled pretty well (had nice manual steering) despite the no-name 13s on steelies because Honda bestowed a nice front end on the 88-91 Civics.

I also briefly owned an '84 Prelude. Same situation --- bone stock running the 13s (or were they 14s?) on steel wheels. That car had amazing steering and stunning handling. And if there were some way to graft on a similar double-wishbone front end to our Accords you'd freak at how great it felt.

[PRIMOCB7]

3. wheel and tire setup is MUCH more important than suspension...always have been and always will be

there's a bit of misleading info in this thread..but oh well

misleading on your part with that statement.

"MORE THAN ANY OTHER COMPONENT, SHOCKS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GOOD TIRE TO ROAD CONTACT." - www.tokicogasshocks.com

[93EXaesthetic]

-Now im running Kyb AGX eibach sportlines...and a full camber kit..I have a set of megan FU..RU..RL strut bars in the mail...what else do i need to do to improve my suspension????

-Currently im running 195/60/15 alloys but i am gonna go with 205/45-50/16's wrapped on rota slipstreams-

-my kyb agx's are set to 3 outta 4 in the front....and 7 out of 8 in the rear.... the reason such high stiffness in the rear is because i recently did a serious weight reduction on my car...took out rear sub..rear seats..and amp.. + rear tire... so the rear of the car would do some serious up motion when i hit bumps....but has stopped sense setting to 7...

-this is one reason why i am planning on moving my battery to the rear..to get some balance between front and rear..i may even take my AC out to lighten up the nose. this seems like a good DIY...taking out AC..and repositioning the battery to the rear of the car

-street racing is fun! tell me to stop street racing ...what are you a cop?...plz!!!! like alcohol should be done in moderation.

-Thanks for the input you guys have put into this thread! Im gonna check out those tires posted..they seem like an excellent deal...they arent Z-rated..but i dont plan on traveling of speeds excess of 130.....not until next year!

- i looked under my car..and see my 93 ex already has sway bars...should i upgrade to suspension techniques? also ...since i have done my stage one weight redux..i hear squeeking coming from the rear...im guessing these are my bushings..havent had time for further inspection

-Finally im working on my driver upgrade...haha..im 10% in GT4 now

[azian21485]

misleading on your part with that statement.

"MORE THAN ANY OTHER COMPONENT, SHOCKS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GOOD TIRE TO ROAD CONTACT." - www.tokicogasshocks.com

reread this comment and explain to me how this compares shocks to tires please

[azian21485]

I agree that tires can make the single biggest difference --- perhaps this is what you meant, azian --- but I disagree with the notion that they are "much more important than suspension".

To continue a bit with the uncle el/deckeda luv fest, I think his last point bears repeating: it should just be a matter of preference, rather than necessity.

What that means to me, is that your suspension is your foundation --- that which enables good tires to do their thing better. Sticky performance tires can mask several suspension ills (mostly because they have good grip) but will ultimately be limited by what the suspension dictates.

I'll give you two examples of cars I remember well, several years ago. We had a '91 Civic sedan DX, bone stock. It handled pretty well (had nice manual steering) despite the no-name 13s on steelies because Honda bestowed a nice front end on the 88-91 Civics.

I also briefly owned an '84 Prelude. Same situation --- bone stock running the 13s (or were they 14s?) on steel wheels. That car had amazing steering and stunning handling. And if there were some way to graft on a similar double-wishbone front end to our Accords you'd freak at how great it felt.

If you want to be faster, you upgrade the most important things in a car first...you don't work backwards - well you can if you want...but it doesn't make sense

comparing those cars that have different suspension geomtries, weight, weight distribution, suspension condition, different rim widths, different tires, and i can keep going on...are like comparing apples to oranges

you can keep your shitty stock tires and put on a $7000 moton suspension and I bet you $1,000,000,000 i'll be faster than you with 15x9's on 225/45/15 hoosiers with a stock suspension

you tune your entire suspension based merely on your tires and nothing else...think about that and tell me what is more important

[azian21485]

-street racing is fun! tell me to stop street racing ...what are you a cop?...plz!!!! like alcohol should be done in moderation.

-Thanks for the input you guys have put into this thread! Im gonna check out those tires posted..they seem like an excellent deal...they arent Z-rated..but i dont plan on traveling of speeds excess of 130.....not until next year!

-Finally im working on my driver upgrade...haha..im 10% in GT4 now

sigh...you sound like some highschool teenie bopper...oh well