"Bang for my buck"

[Captain_K]

(background) Alright guys/girls I have been doing a lot of research for my car 92 auto f22a6. I started off wanting to do a H22 swap, then turbo(one or the other , not both). I went on and on about each of these things several times. I eventually bought all bolt ons (CIA, header, pulley, cam gear, performance module,spark plug wires, full exhaust,) I found out some info about an H22 swap which I calculated to $3500. if i go the other rout i still got my bolt ons plus i am going to put Turbo, cam, piston, ported throttle body, maybe work on the head.
*THIS IS MY QUESTION TO YOU??
Which would put out more power? H22($3500)?? Im pretty sure the "F22 build up" wouldnt cost $3500 but if i put in that amount of money in the F22 could i beat an H22 accord would i be capable of getting a higher time?

Thanks for reading

[xwade01]

Personally I think you could do a massive freakin turbo build up on the A6 w/ 3500$! IMO you could build a monster ass 500+whp monster w/ the a6 build up. I've seen it done, and i've seen an h22 w/ mods get walked all over by a f22 build up. So look up at all the stuff you could do for the f22, and compare!

[Captain_K]

yeah!! but is it in the price range???

[xwade01]

Well 3500$ will cover the pistons rods, and most of the build-up stuff. And i'm sure you can find a cheap turbo on ebay or something, or maybe a nice turbo on this board. Like I said you will have to research your stuff tho. This is IMO tho, i'm sure other people on this board have different opinions.

[85gts]

your problem will be the auto tranny. THEY SUCK!!! Not because it's auto...I actually like the idea of a turbo auto but you would have to have it built or buy a built one and that would add to the cost. The Auto's in our cars break with just our regular low power motors...I know of FOUR in my area alone. It can be done...but that's a big chunk of change to have a built tranny. I'm gonna be lookin for a pontiac grand prix GTP to turbo that. The auto's on those cars can atleast handle 300-400hp.

[zipcreature]

Which would put out more power? H22($3500)?? Im pretty sure the "F22 build up" wouldnt cost $3500 but if i put in that amount of money in the F22 could i beat an H22 accord would i be capable of getting a higher time?

Thanks for reading

CLIFF NOTES: Zipcreature rants about a poorly posed question. The answer to which is MAYBE.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVThat is just me, being me. VVVVVVVVVVVV

What the fuck is this? Dude come on a question must be put in question form! Such as: "which is better A or B?" ^ that hardly classifies as readable.
Why is "F22 build up" in quotes?
I(')m.
Would(')nt
$3500(,)
...if (I) put in that amount of money...in? What? In, in?
could (I)
- Depends on the power of the H22. Do you want to beat a stock H22 swapped Accord?
H22 (A)ccord(.)
(W)ould (I) be capable of getting a higher time?
- Why do you want a higher time bro? Isn't the goal to go a lower time?


Okay I know I'm being a ass right now, but I don't think you did much searching if your still wondering about these types of questions.
For $3500 could you build a F22 to beat a stock H22? Maybe. That is the answer to your question. Maybe!
You need to speak with Hondafan81 http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...=project+white <-- there is a link for you, so you don't have to work hard. Cause we all like freebies. Even me.
Hondafan81 really, really knows his info about the F22 engine. If anyone could help you it would be him; however be warned he is very technical and you need to pay attention cause he talks quickly.
But dude, if you were really capable of building this beast F22, knowing all the required details, and all the parts you would need, you probably would not be asking if it could be done. That is my whole point. If you really knew enough to do that, you would not have posted this question.
I would go H22 for you, or F22 turbo if you know something about that. Which I'm sure you do, because you were researching them - that is good you get bonus points for that.
Sorry to come off so hard, but it is 7:18AM EST and I've not slept in a while. I'm here if you want to talk about anything, you can AIM me also if you want. I don't know nearly as much as most people, but I can help you out some! And that is what it is about. The question is, do you care enough to really be humble and talk to people? Like Hondafan81 blew me away when I first talked to him - I realized I did not know anything. It was humbling. So I suggest you just take my post as a little humbling, not take it as "dude is being mean for fun" but that a swift kick to the backside can be rather motivational sometimes for people.

- Zipcreature

[koolkoreanked]

^^^^ true.

You know there are cheaper ways to swap in a h22. I bought mine for $1500 and had I left it stock it would have been around $500 to install it. For $3500 you should have no problem beating a stock h22. I'm not sure if you'll have a monsterous amount of power but your car will be quick.

[chile]

i put my turbo kit together for $750 (including stage 3 clutch)...total with misc items (gaskets, etc) just under $800. installing this or next week and expect about $100-200 more (tuning, etc.)...$3500 will buy you a lot if you look around.

[93CB7]

It sounds like you are like me. You have the money to do something, but only enough to do it once. You have enough book knowledge to do one or the other, but not enough technical knowledge to decide on your own which one is going to make you happiest with your work. And you have enough time to research the two different projects, but you haven't found what you need to know so you came here for an answer.

Here's the guidance I can give you... The H22 for $3500 had better be all moded up, tuned, and ready to drop in the hole. Building up a F22 is going to require very special and expensive parts with zero tolerance for mistakes to get beyond the H22. The H22 has technology and design on its side. Which ever way you go... it will be more expensive than you thought. It just works out that way all of the time. Things like stated above (the transmission). If your going to have a race car engine you have to have a race car transmission. A properly built transmission can cost almost as much as a properly built engine.

I hope this hasn't scared you away because if you have the cash to do something others want to do bat can't afford. We want you to do it and share your experiences with us so we can live precariously through you.

Good luck with which ever way you go and keep us informed in your progress.

[sublime]

Also think about this, here in some years you will probably want to sell the car, now it's more than likely going to be hard to sell a car that was boosted, just because of the wear and tear. Now on the other hand if you get a swap not only it's a plus to sell the car but i'm sure you will enjoy it. Plus all that maintence involving turbo, go N/A.

Period.

[Captain_K]

Hey Thanks for the help. I have searched and it was about $2500 for the H22 engine/tranny and at a local shop $1000 for installation so $3500 is what the swap is going to be. I guess my question is not "What should I do?" but Would fixing the F22 engine then turboing it be able to smoke the H22 if i put in $3500 in it? I am aware of the Auto Tranny towards turbo and i would like some ideas as to how to fix it or some swaps to do.

[xwade01]

Damn dude $1000 to swap the full H22 into your car? You would be better off doing it by yourself and some friends. Would be cheaper, and would make you more familiar w/ the whole car, so you wouldnt have to depend on the shops. I mean you have plenty of write-up's on this site, you have more than enough people that has done the h22 swap, and if all else fails cpmike owned the h22 swap.

In my eyes, a fully built f22 could walk all over an h22. Just like a fully built d-series could walk all over a b18c5 w/ other mods in a civic/crx. But if your going for the N/A route it could be a lot less more maintenance then a FI. If I learned anything from a fully built turbo motor its you got to keep checking it, and you got to keep everything up to date. It just requires a lot more maintenance.

If you do the whole h22 swap by yourself w/ some friends you could be looking to save about 800$. Thats 800$ you can mod the h22 with. And since your n/a the maintenance level is lower and you wont have to be so precaucious. Theres my .02 cents!

Just keep thinking, looking around, and debating and all that other shit. Then make sure you give us your decision and the end results!

[Captain_K]

Well for me in the end its all about the 1/4 mile, w/out turbo or before turbo would i be able to get in the 14's w/ a built F22. Is it easier? I dont know theres something about turbos that i like either with an F22 or an H22

[xwade01]

I've seen an H22 Accord w/ I/H/E run out at the local track. He was lowered about 2" and he had a r34 complete kit on. He ran a 14.3 and walked all over some civic


EDIT:

He didnt have FULL interior, but he wasnt fully stripped either.

[deevergote]

I paid $1750 for my swap labor... $2400 for the swap. Honestly, doing the work yourself if you have a garage (or at the very least a paved driveway and a weekend to dedicate to it!) it's not hard. Paying to have such a straightforward swap done is a waste, once you know how easy it really is! I kick myself every time I think about that money. $1750 is a full valvetrain and a set of nice cams!

Anyway, $3500 WILL NOT give you a 500hp F22. I know guys with built H22s that have well over 10 grand in their motors that are making about 400. Over 300hp the power isn't really that great anyway... traction issues become major issues beyond that point. $3500 willl get you a good turbo setup (not a DSM kit) and maybe some midrange rods and pistons... forget about paying for installation in that budget. Then you have to worry about electronics, tuning, and transmission parts (as 85gts stated already, your auto will not like the power made by turbo...) Plan on about $1000 plus your own wrenching for a 5 speed swap.

If you get the full H22 changeover from www.hmotorsonline.com, you're looking at about $2400 shipped (what I paid to NJ from CA, so I assume it's similar elsewhere). If you're in CA and can pick it up yourself, you can knock $200 off of that price. Now, with the full changeover, you get the axles, shift linkage, ECU, and a lot of other things. Then all you need to do is source the pedals, clutch master and slave cylinders, and (not necessary, but useful) a 5 speed gauge cluster. You'll probably also need to find a shifter and 5 speed center console (junkyards are full of our cars these days). For less than $3500, you can have a full 5 speed H22 powered CB7, as long as you do the work yourself! If that $1000 swap price was including the 5 speed conversion... then I would MAYBE say that's a good idea. The 5 speed swap isn't very difficult I'm told, but I hear it's rather frustrating. "pain in the balls" I think was the phrase cp[mike] used when describing it to me one day!

The H22 will give you stock reliability, and with a couple thousand more you can really make it scream (get some headwork done, add a valvetrain, some performance cams... LSD for the transmission... a good header and exhaust) Meanwhile, the extra 60-75hp will hold you over


Turbo isn't bad, but don't expect to make crazy power with it. If you want turbo in a budget, look around here for the DSM setup (search DSM* and you'll find tons of info!) With a 14b turbo and some cheap used parts, you can make over 200hp to the wheels. With a t3/t4 turbo (that's going beyond the basic DSM setup) you can make 250 to the wheels with stock internals... However, unless you build or swap your tranny, you won't be going anywhere fast for very long.



So... again... best bang for your buck? DSM turbo or nitrous (don't discount the juice!). A turbo build WILL prove to be far more expensive than you plan, however. H22 auto is probably the easiest and most reliable.

It's a matter of preference in the end. With careful planning and lots of research, you can make either setup work well for you.