Rack and Pinion Counting Turns

[Jcallo]

Hey everyone, Honestly having a big headache here maybe you guys would know? how do you fix rack and pinion turning radius? I hired a dumbass to fix my rack and pinion play little did I know he would actually do more damage then needed.

(car accident )
So far, I have changed all bushings, Bolt bushing, mount bushing and bracket, tie rods on both sides , steering column ball joint ( coupler ). now... my headace is I can't seem to fix my turns.


1.25 to my left and 2.00 on my right ??

[Darkcloud]

1 is your rear frame damaged or arms?

If not do this IIRC it should be 3 full rotations left and right.

Here is how I do it. disconnect the tierods from the knuckles, Center the rack, Adjust the tierods till you can get the wheels straight, to keep toe from going from this / \ or \ / use string to keep wheels straight | |. shouldnt take more than an hr, I do my own alignments.

[Jcallo]

1 is your rear frame damaged or arms?

If not do this IIRC it should be 3 full rotations left and right.

Here is how I do it. disconnect the tierods from the knuckles, Center the rack, Adjust the tierods till you can get the wheels straight, to keep toe from going from this / \ or \ / use string to keep wheels straight | |. shouldnt take more than an hr, I do my own alignments.

The frame is alright and I'll see what I can do, I have it on ramps at the moment so why not give it a shot 8)

[EsperHamid]

Gee, how often you can get 2 threads with the same subject in the same day ^__^
It is very late here and I can't sleep, I want the morning to come so I can resume working on this issue.

I had no accidents but everything in the rack, tie-rods and steering wheel looks odd. After trial and errors, I am doing this approach tomorrow:

0-Loosen the steering column bolts (the bottom one keeps stripping bolt threads dunno why) and loosen the tie-rod nuts

1- Leave the tire rods connected

2- Slip the boots/bellow out until I could see the inner tie-rod part that connects to the rack on both sides of the rack

3- keep the key inside the steering wheel so it doesn't lock then measure between the end of the black rack shaft and the shinny aluminum where it meets the ball joint of the inner tie rod on each side until they become of equal distance ( since it is difficult to get the inner tie rod perfectly centered)

4-Disconnect the steering column, without moving the pinion that way we know that the pinion is in the center position.

5-Adjust the inner tie-rods in-our out of the outer tire-rod until the tires look centered

6-Test the alignment using the string method, then repeat step 5 until I reach 0 toe and both tie-rods have equal amount of threads visible then tighten the nuts.

7-Slip the steering column joint with the bolts back and doing them by hand without tightening making sure not to move the pinion.

8-This will leave the problem at the steering column/wheel, center it as much as possible then do a test drive and adjust the column accordingly of course after each test drive align the wheels using the string method.

I know it is a tedious process but it will be perfect since you don't have to deal with the bottom parts again ( tie-rods, rack.pinion)

Good Luck to me and you

[EsperHamid]

[EsperHamid]

I started working following the procedure I posted before, the maximum shaft pulled on one side has a measurement of 13.2 cm, so the ideal measurement on each side would be 13.2 / 2 = 6.6 cm which equally centers the shaft <= this part has become static.

I then moved to the tie rods and here is where I get lost!! that's what happens when you don't have access to OEM parts !! whenever I try to adjust the tie-rods with equal number of threads, the tires never get straight, they look parallel ( centered ) but not pointing straight !! as if you are making a turn.

I am going to switch the tie-rods ( L & R ) since I guess the manufcturer marked them wrong, going to put L in the passenger side and R on the driver side.

If that doesn't work, then I will re-mount the old tie-rods and check if the wheels point straight with equal number of threads, if they do then I guess either I'll visit the junk yard or do the hard work of removing the new ball joints and put them on the old tie-rods.

[Jcallo]

That is excellent, I'll try this on my day off, my steering is centered but can't get my full left turn count ? but def will try? can I ask what are your inner measurements?

[EsperHamid]

I already did it for your in the post below the picture you quoted. Forget about the steering wheel inside the cabin, I disconnected it. Start from zero, follow the procedure I posted and you'll be OK

One question I am not sure about its answer, is it necessary that outer tie-rods be apart an equal number of threads on each side, maybe someone can help confirm this.

[Jcallo]

I already did it for your in the post below the picture you quoted. Forget about the steering wheel inside the cabin, I disconnected it. Start from zero, follow the procedure I posted and you'll be OK

One question I am not sure about its answer, is it necessary that outer tie-rods be apart an equal number of threads on each side, maybe someone can help confirm this.

Put it up for measurement but still can't center it i did notice my driverside inner tie is longer then your's so today Imma hop down to work and pick one up "i work for o'reillys" hopefully this stops the damn annoying short left turn.

[EsperHamid]

Mission accomplished.

Sorry I stand corrected, the problem is in the design of the steering shaft itself that is tricky. to get it right do the following:

disconnect your steering column, go to the passenger side, disconnect the outer tie-rod, remove the bellows (rubber boots). and fully pull out the shaft with your hand to the passenger side, measure where I told you and you should get 14 cm total length.
The tricky part is on the driver side so it confused me at first, I'll tell you why later on.

Ok so the total is 14 cm, 7cm on each side, pull back the shaft in and measure until you get 7 cm on passenger side, measure the shinny aluminum part only.

When you do, you'll probably think the other side would logically be 7cm ... however to your surprise you'll find that the shinny part on the driver side is only 6cm !!! so where did the remaining 1cm go to ?! well it's hidden on the driver's side inside the casing where the rubber boot fits in .. so rest assured if you're 7cm on the passenger side the shaft is centered !!!

Now connect the outer tie-rods loosely ( do not tighten the lock nut) to the inner tie-rod , then connect its ball joint to the hub assembly and tighten the castle nut on the hub assembly, do this on both sides.

Now proceed to toeing !! ( make sure that your steering coloumn is disconnected )
alright put the tires back on and gently ( not loosely) tighten them to the hub assembly, get a string and wrap it around the tires ( check this Youtube on how to do it), be sure to remove the MUD FLAPS first to get it accurate.



Twist the tie rods in either way, to get the string touching the rear and front side of tire, do this on both tires ... then tighten the lock nut using a 17mm and a 22mm wrench to hold the outer tie-rod in place.

So now your STEERING RACK and TIRES are fully centered !! now on to the steering coloumn in the cabin. ( DISCONNECT THE BATTERY !! )

with the steering coloumn disconnected from the pinion keep turning it, removing the key and putting it back until you lock it in a centered position that wouldn't deviate more than 10 degrees, I am saying this because the steering wheel can be locked in several positions !! it's a little bit tricky but you will find it.

Remove the key and you should be able to deviate it 10 degrees back and forth without the key in it so it is centered.
now remove the steering wheel by loosening the 19mm nut, to remove weight from the coloumn

Now GENTLY GENTLY !! try to fit the coloumn inside the pinion without moving the PINION !! you have 10 degrees, within it the coloumn should fit on the pinion with no hassle, grease it if possible.

so now you know that the coloumn and rack are both centered. Check the toe string if it is still touching both sides of each tire to check if the pinion has moved or not !!

if not, then put your key back and grab the coloumn and GENTLY twist it until you can see the holes of the 10 mm bolts that hold the coloumn to the pinion, install them, remove the key and tighten the bolts.

Put the key again, twist the assembly until the tires are toed again, meaning the sting touches the sides of the tires. Remove the key to lock everything in place ( centered)

Finally, install the steering wheel back in a centered position as possible, remove the strings from around the tires, connect the battery and turn on the car, work the steering wheel lock to lock, check the turn signals along

This procedure is long that's true but DO IT ONCE DO IT RIGHT outcome.In case there's something off !! it would be only the steering wheel !! NOT THE COLUMN NOT THE RACK ... 10 degrees deviation should be easy to fix, but usually you will get it centered from the first time.

GOOD LUCK !!

[EsperHamid]

However my original thread problem wasn't solved, I think it is by design that the shaft doesn't permit a bigger turn on U-turns, maybe if there's a taller shaft than 14 cm that can be fitted from another Honda on our CB7 would allow us to make a wider turn

[Jcallo]

However my original thread problem wasn't solved, I think it is by design that the shaft doesn't permit a bigger turn on U-turns, maybe if there's a taller shaft than 14 cm that can be fitted from another Honda on our CB7 would allow us to make a wider turn

well before I took it to the ahole to fix my turns my left turns where smooth and wide now their short and my right is wide as hell.

[EsperHamid]

apply my method, and you should be centered, I am aligned now and happy. What I meant in my next post is that by rack design our CB7 have a narrow angle of turn.

Forget the hole forget the shop and do it yourself, trust me, do it once do it right. The problem is that shops think that lock nuts should have equal threads both sides, that is not true and unnecessary if it was true then the threads should serve no purpose !!