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    ** BASIC ENGINE MANAGEMENT 101 **

    OK in relation to another Post regarding Tuning the AFR on a H22A I would like to elaborate on the subject. This covers just the Basics of how the ECU determines Air Fuel Ratios. If you want to get to the guts of the Subject do what I done and do a Trade Course on Engine Management Systems.

    The BASIC AIM

    Modern Engine Management Systems (Including the HONDA PGMFI System)are Tuned or Mapped to achieve the optimum AFR of 14.7:1 which is universally considered the best trade off between emissions, fuel economy and power production.
    In any type of internal combustion engine, to achieve complete combustion the fuel needs to be burned at a ratio of 14.7 parts of air to 1 part fuel. This air to fuel ratio (AFR) is called Stoichiometric or Lambda = 1.

    The CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM

    When the engine reaches Normal Operating Temperature the ECU receives a signal from the Coolant Temperature Sensor allowing it to enter Closed Loop Mode. The ECU uses an Oxygen Sensor (Lambda Sensor) to determine how much Oxygen is left in the exhaust after combustion. The O2 Sensor converts this to a voltage signal so the ECU can understand what the AFR is.
    The ECU will adjust the AFR so that the engine runs at the mapped optimum AFR of 14.7:1 in Closed Loop Mode. Actually, the ECU will alternate the mixture rich to lean and back so it can centre it around 14.7:1.
    It does this by Increasing or Decreasing the Injector Pulse Width in Milliseconds(The time the Injector Pintle is open) which determines the actual volume of fuel that is injected during this time. This is also determined by the Fuel Pressure in the Fuel Injector Rail. Fuel Pressure is normally regulated between 220 to 250 Kpa by the Fuel Pressure Regulator.
    The ECU doesn't just rely on the O2 Sensor to determine the AFR. It also references the Coolant Temperature Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, Intake Air Temperature Sensor, Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor, Crank Position Sensor, Engine Speed Sensor & the No 1 Cyl Position Sensor. In an Auto It also references the Auto Transmission Control Unit and its sensors.
    The ECU constantly makes adjustments to the AFR using data from all the Input Sensors, this is called the Short Term Fuel Trim(STFT).
    The ECU keeps an average of what adjustments it has made over time. That average is applied against the Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT), this is known as 'Learning' .
    During closed loop operation both the STFT and the LTFT will have an effect on the AFR.

    SHORT TERM FUEL TRIM - LONG TERM FUEL TRIM

    Lets say the ECU detects the Short Term AFR at roughly 5.0% RICH when we take the car for a drive with a Diagnostic Scanner. When we reset the Fuel Cells or Wipe the ECU Memory, the LTFT is at 0.0%.The ECU will detect, using the O2 sensors, that the Short Term AFR is 5.0% rich. The STFT will equal -5.0%. The ECU will lean out the fuel by 5%. This results in the AFR being brought back to 14.7:1.
    At first the LTFT will be at 0.0% but over time the LTFT will slowly move negative. As that occurs the STFT will move back towards 0.0% because the LTFT is now also removing some of the extra fuel(Leaning Out). Therefore the correction needed by the STFT will be less. After driving for a while you would see something like this:

    LTFT= 0.0% STFT= -5.0%

    LTFT= -1.0% STFT= -4.0%

    LTFT= -2.0% STFT= -3.0%

    LTFT= -3.0% STFT= -2.0%

    LTFT= -4.0% STFT= -1.0%

    LTFT= -5.0% STFT= 0.0%

    If the conditions stay the same the car has 'finished' Re-Learning. Because the STFT is now @ 0.0%, adjustments to the LTFT will stop until STFT moves away from 0.0% again. Actually the STFT will move all over the place if you watched it regularly while someone else was driving, which is why the ECU slowly adjusts the LTFT based on what the STFT tends to be centered around. The Re-Learning Procedure is important to understand because the LONG TERM TRIM is applied against your Wide Open Throttle (W.O.T) FUEL Maps as the ECU does not use the O2 Sensor at W.O.T.

    OPEN LOOP MODE

    When the Engine is Cold or at W.O.T, the ECU is running in "Open Loop Mode"(No O2 sensor feedback). During Open Loop Mode the ECU maps are programmed to intentionally run somewhat richer for a higher & smoother idle when cold (which operates like a Choke) or for more power at W.O.T.

    MODS to ECU

    If you Mod your engine to run richer all the time, say by putting in larger fuel injectors, adding a resistor to the Coolant Temp Sensor or increasing the Fuel Pressure by bypassing the Fuel Pressure Reg the ECU is going to know it is running rich based on the O2 sensor feedback in Closed Loop. It will lean out the extra fuel, at first with the STFT then later more and more with the LTFT to get the AFR back to 14.7:1 to reduce emissions. Now when you go WOT the ECU will stop using O2 sensors feedback but it will still remove however much fuel the LTFT tells it to. The net effect is that your mod to richen the mixture won't work after you have driven the car a little while. In fact it could lean it out depending upon how much fuel the LTFT removes resulting in reduced power. The short term power advantages are there but the long term effects will negate the cheap 'Mods'.
    This can work in reverse to. If you lean out your mixture during Closed Loop the ECU will ADD fuel as needed to get back to a 14.7:1 AFR and this will be seen in the LTFT. It does this because running lean increases emissions which the ECU doesn't want to do. Now when you go WOT the LTFT will add fuel. A Pre-O2 Sensor Exhaust Leak can also trick the O2 Sensor into thinking there is more oxygen left after combustion that there actually is. The O2 Sensor will send a False signal to the ECU which will adjust the STFT in turn affecting the LTFT. It creates one big visious circle.

    RICH & LEAN Mixtures.

    A RICH Mixture is when your AFR has more FUEL than Air.
    The AFR is less then 14.7:1 or Lambda <1. Running rich increases emissions, decreases heat(Short Term), affects fuel economy & INCREASES POWER(Short Term).

    A LEAN Mixture is when the AFR has more AIR than fuel.
    The AFR is greater than 14.7:1 or Lambda >1. Running lean increases emissions, increases heat, affects fuel economy and REDUCES POWER.

    PROBLEMS

    Now Running RICH for too long can cause detrimental long term problems like carbon deposits building up on the back of valves, spark plugs, pistons, O2 sensors and Cat Convertor.
    When the Carbon builds up (Mushrooms) on the back of the valves it affects the Air/Fuel Flow into the combustion chamber. The Carbon soaks up the incoming fuel and also stops the valve from dissipating heat properly.
    When it Builds up on the Piston Surface it creates Hot Spots and changes the Compression Ratio. This causes Pre-Ignition which leads to Power Loss, Burnt Valves & Melted Pistons etc.
    When it builds up on the Spark Plugs the power of the spark decreases and affects the combustion process.
    When it builds up on the O2 Sensor, it contaminates the O2 Sensor and makes it lazy. It will send an incorrect/slow signal back to the ECU which affects both the Long Term & Short Term Fuel Trim.
    When it build up on the Cat Convertor it can cause it to melt down, which can block the Exhaust Pipe resulting in No Power on acceleration.

    LIMP HOME MODE

    The ECU is programmed to recognise minimum & maximum parameters from each Input Sensor. If any Input Sensor operates outside these parameters the ECU references Pre-Programmed Default Maps and goes into LIMP HOME MODE The ECU will Turn on the Check Engine Light to warn the Driver of the problem. The O2 Sensor is more or less the 'Last Line Of Defence'.

    So it all comes down to this.
    "If everything in the engine is operating normally and your AFR is 'perfect' at 14.7:1 all the time then Re-Learning will NOT occur and you will achieve Optimum Power, Emissions & Fuel economy"

    #2
    good info but lean mixtures actually add power not rich mixtures to an extent. Also, note that 14.7 is not the a/f ratio you want to have when you are at WOT in any gear for n/a or FI.
    Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

    FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

    Comment


      #3
      That correct. You actually are shotting for 12-13 in N/A applications correct?
      2DAO (2 Door Accord Owner)
      JDM H22 DOHC 200/161 2.2L
      My members ride: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=20385

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by midnite racer x
        good info but lean mixtures actually add power not rich mixtures to an extent. Also, note that 14.7 is not the a/f ratio you want to have when you are at WOT in any gear for n/a or FI.
        I'm sorry "midnite racer x", but could you please explain to me where you got your info from and what you are talking about.

        Are you aware that "N/A" means "NORMALLY ASPIRATED".

        That means a NON-FORCED Air Induction System or an Air Induction System WITHOUT a TURBO CHARGER or SUPERCHARGER.

        No matter whether the engine is Carburetored, Fuel Injected or bloody hand fed, Whether it Runs on Diesel, LPG or any other type of Fuel known to man, if it hasn't got a Turbo or Supercharger it is Normally Aspirated.

        All Standard (Non-Modded) CB7's, whether they are a SOHC or DOHC, with or without VTEC are NORMALLY ASPIRATED.

        Now could you also explain to the masses in your own wisdom how a Lean Mixture could possibly add Power. Did you actually read the Write Up.

        If a lean mixture adds Power why would you tune your customers cars to a RICHER 13 to 13.5:1 AFR?

        Also 14.7:1 would be the desired AFR at WOT.

        What you have to understand is that all Standard Engine Management Systems are Mapped to achieve a Stoichiometric of 14.7:1 for OPTIMUM Power, Economy & Emissions.

        There is a big difference between OPTIMUM POWER & MAXIMUM POWER.

        Could you please explain to everyone How You Tune an Engine at WOT?
        Last edited by F22-GURU; 01-02-2006, 02:16 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          thats funny...he's actually talking to me like i'm new to this lol

          My own words: Lean mixtures add more power because with lean mixtures you raise the heat in the cylinders. The added heat adds more pressure, more pressure means higher cylinder pressures resulting in more power. Not to mention the a/f mixture is more efficiently and thoroughly burned. By leaning out too much however you run the risk of causing too much heat which can result in detonation, surging, and pinging which causes burned valves, melted pistons, and melted spark plug electrodes.

          Richer mixtures DO NOT and will not add power. Raising fuel pressure is one of the only ways to make more fuel make more power and that gets into fuel atomization. Rich mixtures lower combustion chamber temperatures. Contrary to the above mentioned lean mixtures, lowering combustion temperatures lowers the cylinder pressures resulting in less power. Running way too rich will leave unburnt fuel in the cylinders, if its never burned how can it make power? The good thing about running rich is that its safe to an extent. For n/a motors under WOT rich is 12.5:1 or less and lean is anything above a 13.5:1. I generally tune all of n/a customers to 13.0:1 at WOT and my FI customers to 11.7:1 at WOT and at full boost.

          Why'd you go into a foot long spill about what n/a means? I'm not confused at all but maybe you are on how much i know?
          You tune an engine at WOT on the street or preferably on a dyno...something load based

          An actual datalog of the stock f22 ecu i did with my wideband under WOT, notice the a/f says 12.6 :


          This information is derived from my own experiences and tuning sessions. This next section is my proof, it seems i'm not the only one that believes what i'm saying. Threads and quotes from those threads backing up my claims:

          http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/inde...y;threadid=716
          "13.5 AFR while NA"
          "Think carefully when picking your AFRs. The old saying "lean is mean" applies. You'll almost always (well, within reason) make more power with a leaner AFR (13.5 vs 13.0 or 12.0 vs 11.5, etc.). You may find that EGTs go through the roof with a leaner AFR. You may find that all of a sudden the motor wants to ping. PAY ATTENTION! START RICH + WORK LEANER."

          General A/F ratios to tune by:
          http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/atta.../foshizzle.jpg

          http://www.team-integra.net/sections...p?ArticleID=59
          - " I would not proceed past higher (leaner) than an air:fuel ratio of 13.5:1"

          http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=7898
          - green 91 wrote:"well 14.7:1 is the "ideal" A/F ratio for every engine."

          Replies - " No, its not. Do some reading before giving people completely wrong information."
          "Ideal for emissions on a gasoline engine maybe, but not for power. Once again, don't spread misinformation."
          "green = idiot, 14.4-.7 is ideal for IDLE Conditiions and some crusing conditions, WOT should be between 13.1-12.8 from what i've been tuning for.."

          Please try not to undermine my intelligence, i didn't do it to you so why would you do it to me? I'm sorry if this embarrasses you but like i said before with simple correction some of your first post was a bit misleading. In closing, WOT and 0 vac is not to be confused with idle and cruising conditions. With idle and cruising conditions your looking for the 14.7:1 a/f but with WOT and 0 vac that changes greatly. Your information could have resulted in alot of blown motors.
          Last edited by MRX; 01-02-2006, 04:05 AM.
          Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

          FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

          Comment


            #6
            OK you got me there and I stand corrected as far as the terminology of N/A and I also apologise to Midnight Racer X for confusing his terminology of FI with Fuel Injected It's obvious he know his craft, it's just that I wasn't sure if he actually understood the Terminology of N/A or whether it was a just a typo. It's obvious we have both fucked up here, but I still stand by my explanation on how the Engine Management System Works.

            Even though I've been a Professional Motor Mechanic for 26 Years I don't purport to know everything there is to know about Motor Vehicles, but I do have the basic knowledge of how an Engine Management System works.
            The Day We Stop Learning Is The Day We Die.
            It's just that I was factory trained on these systems by Holden, Honda, Nissan, Isuzu & Daewoo. So I'm hoping I was taught correctly. Unless we know it's basic principles we cannot correctly diagnose or repair it, let alone tune it.

            As you recall all this started with a Question in a Previous Post about what is the best AFR to tune a H22A engine and I was just responding to it to clear up any misinformation given to the original poster.

            From what I gathered in some of the answers was that a couple of the respondents obviously confused Adjusting Air Fuel Ratio's with Adjusting Ignition Timing and when you've been taught a certain way things can become very confusing if the information given is incorrect.

            The last thing we want to do is have the poor bastard tune his engine incorrectly and not reale the true potential of the H22A's Power.
            Last edited by F22-GURU; 01-02-2006, 04:08 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Funny thing is, I stickied this thread for info on how the stock system works, for the sake of understanding it. Never said it was proper for performance tuning. That's why it's in the "technical" section and not the "performance technical" section.

              Good discussions though. I agree on the rich/lean info MRX presented. Too much fuel will cause an engine to fall flat on it's face, more fuel atomization however is good.
              HondaFan81 For Sale Parts (LOW PRICES ON EVERYTHING)

              Comment


                #8
                edited my post...please re-read

                i was simply adding that WOT and normal operation are two totally different worlds no matter the engine configuration, never said otherwise
                Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                Comment


                  #9
                  OK Now I think it's time to clear everything up here children.

                  I'm am going on the Scientific Meaning of 'Stoichiometry' in the Basic Principles of The Internal Combustion Process.

                  The "Stoichiometric Point" or "Perfect Air Fuel Ratio" for "Complete Combustion" is 14.6959:1

                  Anything Above 14.6959 is LEAN
                  Anything Below 14.6959 is RICH

                  This is not my opinion, this is scientific fact so you are welcome to prove otherwise and if so I will be only to happy to admit that I am wrong.

                  Fair enough I have made a couple of minor mistakes in my reply post here due to some confusion but "He Who Has Not Sinned, Cast The First Stone".

                  Oh Yeah: Just for Back Up:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine

                  http://www.energysolutionscenter.org...Combustion.htm

                  http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclo...fficiency.html

                  And Finally to Quote "HondaFan81"

                  "Funny thing is, I stickied this thread for info on how the stock system works, for the sake of understanding it. Never said it was proper for performance tuning. That's why it's in the "technical" section and not the "performance technical" section."

                  GET IT, GOT IT, GOOD!!!!
                  Last edited by F22-GURU; 01-02-2006, 05:45 AM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by midnite racer x
                    My own words: Lean mixtures add more power because with lean mixtures you raise the heat in the cylinders. The added heat adds more pressure, more pressure means higher cylinder pressures resulting in more power. Not to mention the a/f mixture is more efficiently and thoroughly burned. By leaning out too much however you run the risk of causing too much heat which can result in detonation, surging, and pinging which causes burned valves, melted pistons, and melted spark plug electrodes.
                    Richer mixtures DO NOT and will not add power. Raising fuel pressure is one of the only ways to make more fuel make more power and that gets into fuel atomization. Rich mixtures lower combustion chamber temperatures. Contrary to the above mentioned lean mixtures, lowering combustion temperatures lowers the cylinder pressures resulting in less power. Running way too rich will leave unburnt fuel in the cylinders, if its never burned how can it make power? The good thing about running rich is that its safe to an extent. For n/a motors under WOT rich is 12.5:1 or less and lean is anything above a 13.5:1. I generally tune all of n/a customers to 13.0:1 at WOT and my FI customers to 11.7:1 at WOT and at full boost.
                    This information is derived from my own experiences and tuning sessions.
                    But there has to be a point at which 'Perfect Combustion' is created anything above or below that point will result in a loss of power to each degree above or below that point.
                    The "Stoichiometric Point" or "Perfect Air Fuel Ratio" for "Complete Combustion" is 14.6959:1

                    Anything Above 14.6959 is LEAN
                    Anything Below 14.6959 is RICH

                    and I repeat "This is not my opinion, this is scientific fact so you are welcome to prove otherwise and if so I will be only to happy to admit that I am wrong".

                    So unless you have rewritten the Laws of Physics and The Combustion Process, we'll have to agree to disagree..
                    Last edited by F22-GURU; 01-02-2006, 07:29 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by GEN46L
                      So unless you have rewritten the Laws of Physics and The Combustion Process, we'll have to agree to disagree
                      ..
                      ^^^Thats another one of those statements that feels like your challenging my intelligence^^^

                      But i do agree that ~14.7:1 is stoich and the perfect air fuel ratio, i never said otherwise...but only in theory and in a perfect environment. The problem is that an engine is not a perfect environment. It has variables such as the air flow rate and density, the heat carries by the air, the heat carries by the fuel, the coolants heat, the expansion of the different metals directly involved in the combustion process, the abrasive surface of those metals and how they trap and influence the a/f ratio, the slight film of oil thats on the side of the cylinder walls, and etc. That a/f ratio can't exist in all conditions of an engine because of those variables. If you try to tune and engine to under heavy load and WOT to a 14.7 you will usually (dependant on static compression) encounter detonation and pinging by 14.0:1 and that starts to break up and create a very unsteady powerband. You are right that 14.7:1 is a perfect a/f ratio, again, i never said otherwise but your assuming the environment is flawless and an engine is anything but that. In the real world, no longer talking about theory, you will not reach a perfect a/f ratio. Its why closed loop exists and the ecu reverts to a pre-loaded map under heavy load and wide open throttle conditions. And more specifically its why the ecu was running a 12.6:1 a/f ratio in my datalog of the stock f22.

                      I guess i consider this still technical information and not performance because there were no performance parts added and nothing needs to be adjusted per se unless something is terribly wrong. Simply going WOT doesn't mean performance to me if you've got a bone stock accord. Thats an opinion though, i can't really back that up with facts
                      Last edited by MRX; 01-02-2006, 12:37 PM.
                      Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                      FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by midnite racer x
                        ^^^Thats another one of those statements that feels like your challenging my intelligence^^^

                        But i do agree that ~14.7:1 is stoich and the perfect air fuel ratio, i never said otherwise...but only in theory and in a perfect environment. The problem is that an engine is not a perfect environment. It has variables such as the air flow rate and density, the heat carries by the air, the heat carries by the fuel, the coolants heat, the expansion of the different metals directly involved in the combustion process, the abrasive surface of those metals and how they trap and influence the a/f ratio, the slight film of oil thats on the side of the cylinder walls, and etc. That a/f ratio can't exist in all conditions of an engine because of those variables. If you try to tune and engine to under heavy load and WOT to a 14.7 you will usually (dependant on static compression) encounter detonation and pinging by 14.0:1 and that starts to break up and create a very unsteady powerband. You are right that 14.7:1 is a perfect a/f ratio, again, i never said otherwise but your assuming the environment is flawless and an engine is anything but that. In the real world, no longer talking about theory, you will not reach a perfect a/f ratio. Its why closed loop exists and the ecu reverts to a pre-loaded map under heavy load and wide open throttle conditions. And more specifically its why the ecu was running a 12.6:1 a/f ratio in my datalog of the stock f22.

                        I guess i consider this still technical information and not performance because there were no performance parts added and nothing needs to be adjusted per se unless something is terribly wrong. Simply going WOT doesn't mean performance to me if you've got a bone stock accord. Thats an opinion though, i can't really back that up with facts
                        I apologise to you if you feel I was undermining your intelligence, but the reason I started this thread was to enlighten the masses on the BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM as a reference point to which they can understand how their Fuel Injected Engine Works.

                        I don't give a Fat Rat's Arse how good a Tuner anyone is, you cannot correctly diagnose, tune or repair any engine unless you know the Basic Principles of How It Works.
                        When Tuning an Engine you have to have some reference point at which to start with and that point is "The Point of Perfect Combustion".
                        Agreed????
                        Last edited by F22-GURU; 01-02-2006, 05:25 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Finally, I'd like to thank you all for the constructive criticism on this issue.
                          It's quite clear we all have different ways of interpreting things which can only be a good thing for this community. If we all agreed on everything the discussion would be short & sweet.
                          I'd like to thank you, Midnite Racer X, for your input and I sincerely apologise if I offended you in any way, that was not my intention.
                          It's obvious I have made some mistakes in my interpretation on N/A & FI as Australian & American terminologies can differ. i.e Hood - Bonnet, Gas - Petrol etc. "You Say Potayta, I say Potarta"
                          It will be good to be able to bounce our opinions off each other to gain an insight into how different things can be interpreted.
                          So I hope you don't mind if I stick around here to put my views across when required. As I said we never stop learning until the day we die.

                          Cheers
                          GEOFF
                          [GEN46L]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I been reading this thread and all the debates, etc. I feel the misunderstandings occurred because some of us here on this forum are in the "performance mindset" and so from that perspective your technical information on the Honda engine management system was perceived in a different way. I believe that is where the confusion started.

                            Anyhow, things came around and I'm glad there was no flaming, etc. I respect that in both of you. It seems this thread served its purpose and came to a natural closure.

                            If you wish to open it back up to add more technical information GEN46L (Geoff), please PM me. For now it is closed.
                            Last edited by HondaFan81; 01-24-2006, 01:08 PM.
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