poor idle info

[F22-GURU]

OK listen up class. I've just been looking at a numerous posts about erratic idle on their CB7's whether it be a F22 or H22. Each one asks the same Question, but no one mentions the importance of refering to a Workshop Manual.

So here my suggestion at fixing the problem.

Step 1. Don't be a tight arse and go out and buy yourself a HAYNES WORKSHOP MANUAL

Step 2. If you can read, Look up on the CONTENTS Page.

Step 3. Look Down to CHAPTER 4 - Fuel & Exhaust Systems.

Step 4. On the Side of the page you will see the number 4 in a Grey Box.

Step 5. Hold you thumb on the No 4 Grey Box.

Step 6. Start Flicking through the pages and on the side you'll see Grey Chapter Boxes with relevant chapter numbers in them.

Step 7. Keep flicking through until you come to Chapter 4.

Step 8. Look on the Contents Page and look in column two, 6th Line down.

Step 9. It should say Idle Air Control (IAC) System.

Step 10. Go to Page 15 No 18 - Idle Air Control (IAC) System - Check & Component Replacement.

Step 11. READ THE WHOLE SECTION. It will tell you how to test & fix it.

Step 12. If you cant work it out, Shut the book, get in your car and take it to someone that can read the Manual.

MOST IMPORTANT: If you don't know what you're doing DON'T TOUCH IT!!
That's What Mechanics are for.

Surprising enough, as a Professional Mechanic, I still refer to Workshop Manuals to see how something should be done. That's what they publish them for.

So to sum it all up : Don't be lazy Prick!! Read the bloody book.

[93cb7sedan]

i have a helms

and i agree with you. people should search, read, whatever needs to be done.

but sometimes they dont show up as to why your idle may be bad.

i tried everything that i found in searches and the manual. the only thing that fixed my idle problem was someone in this forum telling me to adjust my throttle cable a little bit because i may have had it a bit too tight.

Forums are here to help correct?

[93CB7]

Okay, but how do we know to look at IAC without you being here. Not trying to be an ass, I use a Haynes manual too. I just flipped through the troubleshooting section at the front of the book. Many different things pointed to chapter 4, but they were all fuel delivery. Fuel injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter, ect.

[deckeda]

Couldn't vote; multiple choices aren't available. My Haynes is several years old and almost worthless in many areas. And I don't know that detailed troubleshooting analysis and repair is Helms' forté --- diagrams, torque specs and simple steps are. There are gaps in Helms expected to be filled in my the experienced wrench.

GEN46L I get your frustration. But the nature of poor idle is such that it can be difficult to describe, and therefore diagnose. Additionally, there are several factors, especially on high-mileage engines, that can lead to poor idle. And then add to that unfamiliarity with the car.

For example, I've had my CB7 for many years but since it's the only one I've ever had, and never owned it when new, don't really another CB7 to compare it to. This will remain a popular topic.

[F22-GURU]

Thanks for the feedback fella's.
I'm a stickler for refering to Workshop Manual's to diagnose a problem correctly. I may have a lot of experience in all the various systems in a motor car, but I can't remember every detail, torque spec or info on every car. A lot of the diagnosis & advice I have given here is from Personal Experience of repairing all different types of Motor Vehicles over the past 26 Years.
The main way I learnt all this was from Learning from the Experts, doing Factory Training Courses, Post Trade Courses & reading the Workshop Manuals of the Various Vehicles. I love learning, and I love teaching my craft to others. Learning the Basics of How the System works is critical in getting the diagnosis right. So knowing the basics of how an Engine Management/Fuel Injection System works for instance, you can get an idea of where to look with idling problems.
A lot of people forget the basics of how a system works, and I'm also guilty of that, as sometimes I tend to go striaght to an area I've had problems with before. When I get stuck, I stop and think why I'm not getting anywhere and refer to the workshop manual which freshens up my mind and points me back to the basics.
The purpose of this thread was for everyone to understand it doesn't hurt to refer to a Workshop Manual to Learn, no matter How Much You Know. Each section has a couple of pages dedicated to how that particular system basically works. Sometimes it pays to sit down and read your Workshop Manual from Front to Back to get a better understanding of the car.
Of course you will never remember every detail, but at least you will know that you can refer back to it any time.
Sorry about the rant but you can see what I'm getting at.
Cheers
Geoff

BTW: If you have a problem you can't solve don't be afraid to PM me for advice. If I can help I will point you in the right direction. If I can't I will also point you in the right direction.

[deevergote]

Step #1 should ALWAYS be knowing where to find the answers! Sadly, every member of cb7tuner.com isn't an expert, yet they give advice out based on rumor and "common sense". Don't take everyone's word for fact!

If the person you're getting your answers is known to know their stuff, like GEN46L, mr honda, bustedlx, and a number of highly experienced people, then you might be safe taking their word as fact. If THEY are unsure, they would certainly communicate that to you (or not bother answering without learning the solution beforehand!)


If you have a problem, look to a manual FIRST! Please! Even if it's not clear to you, or doesn't seem to answer your question, at least you'll have a bit more of an understanding of what it is people are telling you when they answer you on here! If you can't afford to purchase a manual ($20 for the cheaper ones like Chilton's and Haynes, $80+ for the better ones) then you can always go to your local library. I know my library has them on hand! There are also online manuals, if you have the patience to go through them (I don't, personally).

On a final note, getting a Haynes AND a Chiltons isn't a bad idea. I'm not a very experienced mechanic, so a lot of things are new to me. I find it very helpful to read up on what I want to do in both books. Two descriptions of the same process greatly helps in clarifying what needs to be done!

[accordmaniac]

Helm Factory Service Manual is very detailed well explained.
I have 91, 94 Accord (PDF) and 93 Accord (bought from Helminc.com) Helm Factory Service Manual.
I also have 90-93 Haynes Manual... Yik..

My recommendation..
Spend little more and buy Helm Factory Service Manual for your car!

[F22-GURU]

Helm Factory Service Manual is very detailed well explained.
I have 91, 94 Accord (PDF) and 93 Accord (bought from Helminc.com) Helm Factory Service Manual.
I also have 90-93 Haynes Manual... Yik..

My recommendation..
Spend little more and buy Helm Factory Service Manual for your car!

ATM I only have the Haynes 90-93 Honda Accord manual as it is the best one available in OZ at my local Repco Store. I have noticed it is quite limited in it's ways but adequate for the lay person. Sounds like the Helms is the better source for info. I'll invest in a Helm's Version as well now.
Ultimately I'll see if I can get hold of an OEM Honda Version as well.
See, I can still learn stuff from you blokes as well.

[arcadiacb7]

more than one issue for the idle

ok well i have wrote my own fix to this problem and in my searching i have found that it can be more than just the IAC. So refer to my thread: cure for the erratic idle.

[F22-GURU]

ok well i have wrote my own fix to this problem and in my searching i have found that it can be more than just the IAC. So refer to my thread: cure for the erratic idle.

I've just read that thread and I couldn't see anything in there that solved your idle problem. It was all just Trial & Error. Sometimes T&E works and other times you can fuckup up everything.
Also. when you say to try all these different things, are you doing them one after the other, or checking to see if you fixed it after each check/test?

If you do check/test them all at the same time and you solve the problem, how do you know what fixed it?? It'd be a PITA to have to do all the tests each time.

It is best off to understand every circuit that controls, or affects, the idle process in the PGM-FI System before you go out and fuck around with anything you can get you hands on to.

[F22-GURU]

***UPDATE***
Just to add to my Original Post there are other Circuits that should be checked for Idle Problems as well:

Brake Light Circuit.
Engine Coolant Temp Sensor Circuit.
Vehicle Speed Sensor Circuit.
Power Steering Pressure Switch Circuit.
Air Conditioning Signal Circuit.
AT Shift Position Signal Circuit.
Alternator Signal Circuit.
Electrical Load Detector Circuit.
EGR Control Circuit.
Map Sensor Circuit.
Intake Air Temp Circuit.
Knock Sensor Circuit (H22A)
O2 Sensor Circuit.

Now Looking at that it's just about every circuit in the PGM-FI System can cause an Idle Problem!!! Hmmm How about that.
So don't just rely on one problem causing poor idle.
Now you may understand why I say:
CHECK THE WORKSHOP MANUAL FIRST

[deserthonda]

by th way just so it is known ,,Helms manuals are Honda manuals , that;s what we use at dealerships ,,,,and if people plan to work on their own cars they really really should get the ETM ( electrical troubleshoot manual )from helms ,,,,,,,someone had the link up earlier ,,www.helminc.com

[deserthonda]

CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON

CODES

Diagnostic Trouble Code Identification
LED, MIL & Check Engine Lamp Flash
0
Engine Control Module

1
HO2S Or O2S

2
HO2S Or O2S{2}

VSS{1}

3
MAP Sensor

4
CKP Sensor{2}

Vacuum Switch{1}

5
MAP Sensor

6
ECT Sensor

7
TP Sensor{2}

M/T Clutch Switch Signal{1}

A/T Shift Position Signal{1}

8
TDC{2}

Ignition Coil Signal{1}

9
No. 1 Cylinder Position Sensor

10
IAT Sensor

12
EGR System

13
BARO Sensor

14
IAC Valve{2}

EACV{1}

15
Ignition Output Signal

16
Fuel Injector System

17
VSS

19
Lock-Up Solenoid Valve

20
Electric Load Detector

21
VTEC Solenoid Valve

22
VTEC Pressure Switch

23
KS

30
A/T FI Signal A

31
A/T FI Signal B

41
HO2S Heater

43
Fuel Supply System

48
HO2S{3}

[F22-GURU]

by th way just so it is known ,,Helms manuals are Honda manuals , that;s what we use at dealerships ,,,,and if people plan to work on their own cars they really really should get the ETM ( electrical troubleshoot manual )from helms ,,,,,,,someone had the link up earlier ,,www.helminc.com

Good Call Mate, I'm not sure if we can get Helm's in OZ, but I'll see if I can get hold of one through my local Honda Dealer.
Thanx for the heads up.
It's obvious from reading your replies you really know your stuff with Honda's so it should be good to be able to bounce ideas off another Pro.

[deserthonda]

Good Call Mate, I'm not sure if we can get Helm's in OZ, but I'll see if I can get hold of one through my local Honda Dealer.
Thanx for the heads up.
It's obvious from reading your replies you really know your stuff with Honda's so it should be good to be able to bounce ideas off another Pro.

BTW: That link don't help much!

Upon reading some of your replies you seem to be a pretty knowledgable guy yourself ,,
I am here to help..