Is a Gude cam any good?

[HondaFan81]

I just repeated what Jerry, guy who replied by email from Delta, told me. He suggested 272 profile for my plans. What you suggest NoScreenName with my planned mods below? What profile you have w/what mods?

Note: Generalized some parts cuz I don't know exactly what I'm going with yet. More research is needed.

My F22A1 engine, 11:1 comp. ratio NA build-up plans:

Race Engineering (Wiseco) 11:1 pistons 85.5mm & rings, forged rods, 0.020" overbore, P&P cylinder head (maybe 3-angle job), seat valves, Delta camshaft 272 regrind, stronger valve springs & retainers, AEM CAI, F22A4 header (4-2-1), stock cat, Apexi 2.25" world sport exhaust, H22/H23 intake manifold TB & top-half, F22A6 intake manifold bottom-half w/IAB, P72 ECU w/Hondata S100 ROM & dyno tune, 7mm wires, NGK BKR7E plugs, 255 lph Walbro fuel pump, B&M fuel psi regulator & gauge, Autometer air/fuel ratio gauge & elect. oil psi gauge, larger fuel injectors.

[Lithium92]

wooot.. heheh... InlinePro (from VA) got the custom regrind from Delta for me they also did most of the machine work from my f22 includes the high comp pistons. I let them use my busted up f22 for their test bed. Honestly, I told no about the Delta cam on SHO because quite frankly, no asked. I'm not trying to be an ass about it or anything, that's just the way I am... and Zigen I really don't appreciate you calling me out in accordtuner; not cool in my book. If I don't want to share my my info; that's my choice. So I hope no-one here hates me for that.

I digress....anyway guys...ok here it is...

I have the 272 cam spec good for middle to high gains. The cam is installed using the stock valve springs and retainers. No need to upgrade either of the 2 components. If you want the best gains; the 272 is your best bet; not the 260.

My mistake... I re-read my earlier post... I do not have a regrind... Delta supplied the core. total cost was roughly $100. yes it's cheper than what you guys think. If you guys have more questions about the cam call Scott @ Delta (253) 383-4152.

This is what delta recommended I use for my NA set up.
my cam gear is advanced to 4 degrees
cam profile is: 4020th lift(<--might have to get back in this #; I'm not 100%) with 272 duration.

more info:
I have f22 Race Engineering XT series pistons (11:1 comp) and Pauter rods
KMS Engineering SS oversized valves (.05)

[ZigenBallZ]

Originally posted by Lithium92
wooot.. heheh... InlinePro (from VA) got the custom regrind from Delta for me they also did most of the machine work from my f22 includes the high comp pistons. I let them use my busted up f22 for their test bed. Honestly, I told no about the Delta cam on SHO because quite frankly, no asked. I'm not trying to be an ass about it or anything, that's just the way I am... and Zigen I really don't appreciate you calling me out in accordtuner; not cool in my book. If I don't want to share my my info; that's my choice. So I hope no-one here hates me for that.

It's still a regrind... Delta reground a stock core...

Well... I appreciate the reply though... But I would say that paying a shop to pick the parts and install them doesn't really make one an expert on a given subject...

Hell yeah I'll call you out.... your built motor description is vague...F22 high comp pistons huh? What brand? What kind of rings? rods? Who did the head work? If I'm spending thousands of $$$ I'm going to know EXACTLY what parts I have...and If I'm going to be suggesting parts/setups to people then I'm going to qualify that suggestion with personal experience ...Not some shady BS about my sooper secret sooper speshul setup that I can't tell anyone about ( that some shop built up for me to their specs not mine)... keep it on the DL if you want...whatever...that's your business...Don't fault me...whhhhhaaaaah...have some balls if you want to keep it a secret.

I do fault you for that though...don't suggest something if you're not going to share or at least qualify that opinion, that's my philosophy...

But why share what you have now if you were so shady about it before? Because I called you out? Weak...

Your reason for not mentioning that you had a Delta cam is BS.... no one asked you about it here either...the title is asking about Gude cams...and these EXACT SAME posts popped up on SHO every other week...so how come you never posted in those threads then? Answer that one....

Just curious if you have anyway to prove you have anything that you say you have? Receipts? Boxes? Part #'s? a picture or 2?

I will reverse what I said and aplogize publicly if you can prove your claims to my satisfaction...otherwise you are either a total bullshitter or claiming credit for someone else's tuning trying to make you seem more knowledgeable than you really are...

[HondaFan81]

Questions for Lithium92 (you can PM me if you'd like):

1) Usually when cams are more aggressive, aftermarket valve springs are needed & for a higher revving setup retainers as well. Who told you to keep the stock setup?

Ok, what I got so far is... Delta takes a new stock core and regrinds it to a 272/260 profile? That right?

Like I said, you can PM me if ya want. I ask cuz I will be starting a project of my own in a few months.

Thanks & let's keep it real guys aight, everyone's been getting along fine here so far & been really nice & helpful. No need to ruin it with attitude.

[ZigenBallZ]

Originally posted by HondaFan81
Questions for Lithium92 (you can PM me if you'd like):

1) Usually when cams are more aggressive, aftermarket valve springs are needed & for a higher revving setup retainers as well. Who told you to keep the stock setup?

2) Higher compression on NA engine build-up = more heat. Will stock suffice for your setup (11:1)? What valves you have on your setup?

3) When you said Delta uses a new core...then your basically saying they copy the profile from a master onto a new core? Do you need to send in your cam or no?

Like I said, you can PM me if ya want. I ask cuz I will be starting a project of my own in a few months.

Thanks & let's keep it real guys aight, everyone's been getting along fine thus far & been really nice & helpful. No need to ruin it with attitude.

OK...

1) If you're not increasing the redline at all.. then stock springs are fine with the Delta grinds.... but as you get higher than 11-11.5mm of lift the stock valvesprings will bind even at stock rpm ranges... the upgraded valvesprings allow you to run high lift at high rpms without binding a spring and floating a valve... But the only point of getting a regrind or a new cam grind for that matter is to make more power higher up the rpm range...so any regrind won't give it's full potential unless the redline is raised and fuel, spark and air delivery is increased... so to take advantage of the increased power band you need to raise the redline and that requires some ECU work and a kickass valvetrain...
personally I would never dig into internals until I had built my head up... there's no point to it IMO...

2) stock comp is 8.8:1... any comp increase will add more power with an aggressive cam than without it... the 2 compliment each other incredibly well...don't go oversize on the valves unless you will be spraying, boosting or getting into the fine edge of all out NA... The torque loss adds up... So unless it's a gas sucking track beast that you don't drive to 7-11 ever, I'd say the oversize valves will kill ALL torque below 2500...

3)if he payed $100 then there is no way in hell his cam was ground from a new blank.... you start hearing numbers like $700+ when you talk about cam blanks... I can almost garuntee that it is a regrind...

Good luck on the project man... your plans sound good...and I'd go with the 272 in heartbeat on that proposed setup...

As far as any attiudes... Hey if something can't stand up to being scrutinized then maybe there's something fishy.... Anyone can attack whatever I have said and I can defend it easily... because I'm not being shady or making vague claims about things...My claims are easily verifiable...

I can get along with anyone...until they start making shit up or try and talk like they know more than they do...it's no big deal in the long run I suppose...but this reflects on cb7tuner directly... I made a challenge to someone and we'll see if the claims can be backed up...otherwise I suppose I won't be much of an active member if a liar is a mod and I'll stick to AT where info is shared freely and without asking for anything in return...

Oh and you asked what grind I have with what mods? It's all there in the 4thGen Forum on AT for all to see...has been for quite awhile.... If anyone really is interested in my setup keep an eye out on AT, I finished a couple things and I will be updating my progress very soon... FOR ALL TO SEE AND READ ABOUT!!! ...

[HondaFan81]

I agree with what you said NoSN on backing up your own claims. Maybe you two have a lil "history" or something. I just had a lil prob with the attitudes, but that's between you two to sort out.

Anyways, thanks for the info, much appreciated. Replies on ur responses:

1) If stock springs are fine. The engine I'm rebuilding has 110,000 miles on it & I think had two owners previously. You suggest new ones for my project?

2) So if you suggest stock size valves...question still remains, will new stock handle 11:1 comp. ratio higher temps? or do I go with aftermarket that's stock size, but can handle the heat? I want a reliable setup, but not overkill.

3) Yea, I'm thinking regrind...would be shocked if it's from a blank cuz you're right $700-900 range I've seen. I'm thinking (have to call about this), they take your stock cam...repair it with welding, etc...then dial it into the profile which they trace from a master profile they have at their place.

Either way...I'm looking for something that will give me additional gains to my setup & be reliable. If a performance regrind gives me +20K like Lithium's has so far...I'm for it.

They did email me back (Jerry did), saying it was a regrind...that's why I'm confused on all this...keep flippin it on me...I seriously have to call.

[Lithium92]

Originally posted by NoScreenName
It's still a regrind... Delta reground a stock core...

Well... I appreciate the reply though... But I would say that paying a shop to pick the parts and install them doesn't really make one an expert on a given subject...

Hell yeah I'll call you out.... your built motor description is vague...F22 high comp pistons huh? What brand? What kind of rings? rods? Who did the head work? If I'm spending thousands of $$$ I'm going to know EXACTLY what parts I have...and If I'm going to be suggesting parts/setups to people then I'm going to qualify that suggestion with personal experience ...Not some shady BS about my sooper secret sooper speshul setup that I can't tell anyone about ( that some shop built up for me to their specs not mine)... keep it on the DL if you want...whatever...that's your business...Don't fault me...whhhhhaaaaah...have some balls if you want to keep it a secret.

I do fault you for that though...don't suggest something if you're not going to share or at least qualify that opinion, that's my philosophy...

But why share what you have now if you were so shady about it before? Because I called you out? Weak...

Your reason for not mentioning that you had a Delta cam is BS.... no one asked you about it here either...the title is asking about Gude cams...and these EXACT SAME posts popped up on SHO every other week...so how come you never posted in those threads then? Answer that one...

Just curious if you have anyway to prove you have anything that you say you have? Receipts? Boxes? Part #'s? a picture or 2?

I will reverse what I said and aplogize publicly if you can prove your claims to my satisfaction...otherwise you are either a total bullshitter or claiming credit for someone else's tuning trying to make you seem more knowledgeable than you really are...

Gimme a break Zigen... I'm not about to have I pissing contest with you or anyone for that matter; nor did I claim to be an expert on this subject, either. And about the SHO threads; sure there were tons of threads about them but who says I have to post. I'm on forums basically to soak in info in give some if I feel the neccecity. I'm a member on accordtuner, too... but I never post, lol. So you gonna stone me for not saying anything... eesh tough crowd.

I don't even keep my shoes boxes let alone boxes for my car parts. I'm no pack rat . Nor am I so insecure that I have save every bit if evidence to prove what I have. For instance; would you believe I had TE-37's if I told you? I didn't keep the box they came in. - You have you philosophies I have mine. I refer to keep my trap shut on most things. That's just the way I am, man. I know how abrasive you can be but I don't condemn you for it; that's just the way you are. If you didn't see before on my first reply to your inquiries; I listed the parts and the manufacturer. Pistons, Rods and Valves. I prefer not to have this thread escalate to anything worse than it's already getting to. If you still have questions pls. PM me.

Hondafan: look at the last post I had for what valves I have.

[HondaFan81]

Aight boyz, I just got off the phone with Scott @ Delta, really nice & helpful guy BTW. He answered all my questions.

1) Keep stock valves (assuming in good condition), they are SS from factory. Have them seated & do compression check, P7P your head.

2) Since my engine has 110,000 miles on it already..he suggested new stock valve springs...cam regrind is designed to run with it. Also said, keep stock retainers.

3) Also, to finalize the debate on what Delta does....they take your stock cam and do a performance regrind on it & send it back to you.

Additional suggestions he mentioned for a 272 profile regrind:
Works w/stock timing. However, if you want performance, run 4 deg advance on cam in reference to crank (called physical phasing). Obviously have a cam gear to do this. Then, advance your ignition timing by 2-4 deg, he was saying 4 deg..but I'd start @ 2, then work your way up & see how it runs. Should get an air/fuel ratio gauge when doing this.

Also, MSD ignition & a more powerful coil DO benefit a high compression, NA performance motor. He said he has a car & it ran like shit when his MSD box wasn't working....very noticeable. Plus, for a 4 cyl engine, 7mm wires will be plenty. Stock size is like 4.5/5 mm. You should also replace dist. cap & rotor, if they are not like new.

questions off all this:

1) I'm going with 255 lph fuel pump. What size injectors are needed?

2) I'll have a fuel psi regulator & gauge. If I recall, stock fuel psi is like around 35 psi (anyone know exactly? don't have book w/me). What fuel pressure do I set it at? I remember reading somewhere for an NA build-up...upgrade fuel pump & larger injectors @ stock psi. I just want to verify this.

[Lithium92]

oh yeah, one more thing... Zigen, I would really prefer we have no "BLAH" wars here on CBSev like the one on SHO *ehem ehem*

[HondaFan81]

yea Lithium.... I noticed them at the end, right above your sig & adjusted my post accordingly....thx for the info.... in the past 30 min I had ALOT of my primary concerns answered. Thanks alot to all of you and Scott @ Delta cam

peace!

[ZigenBallZ]

Originally posted by Lithium92
oh yeah, one more thing... Zigen, I would really prefer we have no "BLAH" wars here on CBSev like the one on SHO *ehem ehem*

It was funny to all the people without sticks in their asses....

and was cleaned up promptly...

didn't hurt anyone either...plus it gave SHO people something to whine about for days afterwards...

Pissing contest? how do you figure? I asked for speficics...you could only provide me with general knowledge....I asked for the Cam Doctor sheet specs and you probably don;t even know what I'm talking about when I say that....and finally I asked for proof... you couldn't provide me with very much of what i asked for...So I have formed my opinion about you...it may be an "abrasive" opinion.. but I gave you several chances to back up your flimsy and flaky claims...If anyone were to ask me personally or in general about you I won't sugarcoat it...

If you are lying I'd have more respect for you if you copped to it... I'm not trying to jump your case at all...

I just wanted to know more about your engine setup and this "custom spec" Delta cam that you were bragging about...the setup you don't know very much about it seems...

So fine... I'll steer clear of you and you do the same for me... We'll agree to disagree...sound fair?

and there will be no Blah Wars if we can keep this from getting personal... Baqsically if you ban me or edit/delete my posts purely for personal reasons and I am subject to a different or more stringent set of rules than other members I will have a problem with that and won't hesitate to say so... That was the whole problem with SHO... I couldn't even express my opinion without it being a rule violation so it escalated to immature proportions...

[Lithium92]

Originally posted by NoScreenName
I just wanted to know more about your engine setup and this "custom spec" Delta cam that you were bragging about...the setup you don't know very much about it seems...

I called up Delta again and had a long conversation with Scott from Delta (he was laughing about how for some odd stroke of fortune everyone has been calling him about the 272 cam) Anyway, my point is the guy who originally talked to my shop (not scott) said it was a 'custom' cam. Which made everyone including my mechanic at Inline think it was a custom cam. After calling Delta and finding out for myself; it really isn't a custom cam. It's the 272. I apologize for the confusion.

So fine... I'll steer clear of you and you do the same for me... We'll agree to disagree...sound fair?

I prefer for it not too be that way, man. I hope this doesn't mean we're losing you as a member. I actually wish you'd post here more; you hardly do. From what I have read, I know you are very knowledgeable about our cars and most of the time you are helpful when you are not bearing down on someone

... and yeah... if you've probably noticed most of our Mods are from SHO and our rules are a water-down version of the rules there. the only thing we really stress here are posting in the correct forum(keeing it organized) and no bashing. We usuallly let everything else fly.

[ZigenBallZ]

Originally posted by Lithium92
most of the time you are helpful when you are not bearing down on someone

See.... Not neccessary by any means...

That's funny though... Scott should thank me for publicizing Delta...

I post where the good topics are...AT, HS, HAN, HT AD, ef-1, Pgmfi, here....

I was actually very pleasantly surprised when I realized that even though this board was started by mainly SHO members the SHO perspective was NOT carried over... I applaud accordtunerx for that... Honestly I was expecting the same restrictive, ivory tower modding that SHO is famous for...

I may have been a bit harsh, but your vagueness about everything seemed most unhelpful and almost antoganizing...

Basically, I won't make any direct comments to you unless I feel you were wrong about something...and I'd appreciate you to do the same...

I'm still not letting you off the hook...because your specific lack of knowledge beforehand about YOUR OWN setup makes me wonder... I think you were in the wrong slightly...speaking on things you don't know much about...but whatever...

I'll talk my shit and then it'll be out of system....but I'm not going to be your cheerleader by any means...I still think you are full of shit but we can peacefully co-exist... Hell I did it with Ed....

If I really was "abrasive" and an evil dick...I'd pass this thread along to Ed and let him say some of the things I'm thinking...except for the pussyface and poopyhead stuff...

but that might be too much...

See... I'm not SUCH a bad guy...

[Lithium92]

nah... I'm not trying to antagonize anyone by not replying. I'm very busy throughout the day and I don't like to get into specifics because it takes too much time out of my work day - seriously, I am a really busy person. So don't think by me not answering was a way of antagonizing you or Hondafan (because he's fed me steady diet of PM's this week and the week before - sorry man, been uber busy). I'm not saying your a dick, but the way you post does come out harsh especially when you are on the receiving end... e.i."I still think you are full of shit but we can peacefully co-exist"... I haven't once tried to smear you in our conversation here, but I guess that's how you're being nice. I'll take it anyways, better that way than being immature and squabbling over the net like 2 tards.

peas

[HondaFan81]

yea, NoSN...hopefully you both sort out your diffs or just "co-exist." Cuz when it comes down to it... I just want to learn & I can tell you're a pretty knowledgeable guy....that's what counts here so I hope you keep posting.

In the end it isn't just about two peeps, but for the benefit of everyone < man, that sounds so corny