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Old 06-05-2019, 06:01 PM   #1
Ultimaz
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F22A1 fuel pressure?

The car will not start unless I keep the key in the on position for 20 seconds, then try to start it WHILE pressing the accelerator pedal slightly.

Once the car starts, it takes it awhile to "balance out" the air fuel, and when I drive I have absolutely no power and it bogs in low rpm.

2000 miles ago: Brand new fuel pump, fuel filter, spark plugs, wires, radiator, overflow tank, machined head, leveled block, felpro head gasket.

So My question is: Is it likely one of the parts I already replaced that crapped out within 2000 miles such as filter, pump or something else?

1993 Honda accord LX Sedan
Motor: F22A1 automatic
4005815
Mileage:212xxx

New Parts:
-PCV valve $4
-Denso radiator/fans/cap $65
-Upper radiator hose $14
-Brake pads $20
-NGK spark plug cables $35
-AEM high volume fuel rail $112
-Spectra premium fuel pump $25
-Fuel filter $20
-Cold air short ram intake $35
-4-2-1 stainless steel exhaust manifold $60
-Valve cover gasket $20
-50A ignition fuse $5
-Battery ground cable $8
-Re-soldered main relay contact points (free)
-Machined head (cleaned, surfaced) $125
-Cleaned block and piston heads (free)
-Felpro head gasket $65
-Head gasket replacement (free)
-Denso O2 sensor $60
-Tires $160
-New OEM Injectors $65
-360 degree race spark plugs $80
-New Radiator overflow tank $15
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Old 06-06-2019, 05:08 AM   #2
blazercrx
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How do you know that the air/fuel is "balancing out", do you have a wideband O2 sensor along with the denso? Has this issue been since the refresh or did it come on gradually/immediately in these 2000 miles? Did you tamper with the TPS sensor during this whole "machined head" business?

It sounds like you have a fuel problem, the fact that you can get it to run means you have spark and air, but having to hold the accelerator down means something is out of whack.
Machining the head and deck then using a stock gasket will increase your compression ratio (and possibly make your timing belt "longer" cuz it doesn't have to go as high).
From your parts list the spectra pump is the weak link in my opinion, you have a high volume fuel rail, higher compression engine and an aftermarket "oem replacement" pump feeding them. When you installed the pump was the tank replaced or thoroughly cleaned out? It's possible the filter on the pump has junk restricting its flow, or its made it into the lines and possibly clogged the engine compartment filter.
Another issue is, if you removed the TPS or bumped it hard enough, it could be reading the wrong value of the butterfly and the computer is supplying the wrong amount of fuel.
Last bit, the main relay... re-soldering is totally an option, but you may have burnt the board while doing so or didn't do it well enough to correct the cracked joints. It may still be an issue in this scenario.
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:50 AM   #3
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any cel codes? when my accord sat I did all that you did but went with walbro 255 lph fuel pump. a cold valve lash and hot oil flush and fogged the cylinders beforehand. not sure what the issue could be about bogging. like crx said its always broken down to air fuel spark. so perhaps if not fuel, check components inside the dizzy or the cap/rotor for green or white crustations built up inside it.

keep at it and dont give up! You got this
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Old 06-06-2019, 08:56 PM   #4
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Did you adjust your valves after installing the head? Is the cam gear possibly off by 1 tooth either direction? Your O2 sensor might be getting lazy, but not dead enough to throw a CEL. If you get a new O2 sensor, I would recommend a Denso or a NGK/NTK. DO NOT buy a Bosch O2 sensor they are garbage.
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:13 AM   #5
Ultimaz
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The only CEL code was EGR valve and that was months ago and it stopped before this problem started so as of right now no check engine light.

The valved were adjusted by the machine shop that did my head.

I cleaned the contact points on the dizzy when I did the rebuild and checked the wires and coil, all seemed to look ok but I did not test them with a meter.

I think it may be either the FPR, the main relay, or the fuel pump. I am going to go ahead and do each one by one and go ahead and see if I can bring her back to life.

If the timing did jump off by 1 tooth, would it go from feeling like 127hp to 50 and give me my current symptoms?
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:45 AM   #6
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I've had the timing belt advanced one tooth too far and the car had no power, and couldn't even get above 4000 rpm's. Also how did the machine shop adjust the valves without knowing where top dead center on the pistons was at? You need to adjust the valves with the head bolted onto the block. Otherwise it could be you have no compression due to the valves being locked partially open, this would cause you to lose of a ton of power out of the engine as well.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:16 AM   #7
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Any answers to the questions I posed would help us help you.

Rilas, they could have done the valve lash on the bench and just rotated the cam around to the back side of the lobe and feeler gauged the rocker in...

There's a multitude of scenarios that could be causing your symptoms, until those questions are answered I'm not sure which road to point you down.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercrx View Post
Any answers to the questions I posed would help us help you.

Rilas, they could have done the valve lash on the bench and just rotated the cam around to the back side of the lobe and feeler gauged the rocker in...

There's a multitude of scenarios that could be causing your symptoms, until those questions are answered I'm not sure which road to point you down.
I know you can adjust the valves on the bench. Only doing so usually it's somewhat close but not as exact as when you do it when the engine is assembled.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:40 AM   #9
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Sorry if it seemed I implied you didn't know Rilas, I was just trying to answer your question for the knowledge of the thread.
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Old 06-07-2019, 03:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilas View Post
I know you can adjust the valves on the bench. Only doing so usually it's somewhat close but not as exact as when you do it when the engine is assembled.
Right. If you adjust them on the bench, then some of the rocker assembly bolt torque is going toward compression valve springs, not properly clamping down the supports. Ideally, the valve adjustments should be backed off when installing the rockers, then adjust the valves on engine.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercrx View Post
How do you know that the air/fuel is "balancing out", do you have a wideband O2 sensor along with the denso?
No sensor needed, I can hear the engine misfire and starve of fuel for the first 10 seconds upon start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercrx View Post
Has this issue been since the refresh or did it come on gradually/immediately in these 2000 miles?
The problem came on immediately at 1900 miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercrx View Post
Did you tamper with the TPS sensor during this whole "machined head" business?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercrx View Post
When you installed the pump was the tank replaced or thoroughly cleaned out?
Yes, tank was in good condition and cleaned out thoroughly.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:31 PM   #12
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Read through again. I know you have a new fuel pump, rail, and injectors, but have you checked the pressure at the rail?
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Old 06-09-2019, 05:47 AM   #13
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Ok, so with the confidence Ultimaz has that the TPS wasn't tampered with and that it came on immediately at 1900 miles, it sounds to me like the timing belt skipped a tooth.

I'm not sure how much the machine shop took off the head but there may not have been enough tension on the belt once installed. My suggestion is to check the TDC marks on the crank and cam shaft before replacing any recent component.

Another issue could be that the injectors aren't getting fired at the right time/at all... check the pressure at the rail like fleetwood said then confirm that you have continuity from each injector plug back to the ECU. (I had this problem on my crx, lost power to my injectors after I unplugged the resistor box for repairs and found #2 and #4 inj ECU pins to have been switched by PO)
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:16 PM   #14
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Have you checked timing? I bet it is off one tooth. Have you done a compression test?
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:16 PM   #15
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Check the inside of your distributor cap for corrosion and wear and what are 360 degree race plugs? I’d put NGK “cheapos” back in it.

I’ve never driven a F22 with timing being off one tooth but I did set mine a tooth off accidentally last time I did a timing belt. It fired right up like nothing was wrong. Only figured it out when I tried to rev the engine and it felt like I had a 200lb flywheel strapped to it.

I just had something very similar to this happen and it was a simple distributor cap.

Before you fire off the parts cannon at this thing you really need to go through a proper troubleshooting.
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Last edited by asleepz; 06-15-2019 at 07:35 PM.
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