Acura RLX

[deevergote]

Oh yeah, forgot about the M56... And THAT is part of my point. The M is pretty overlooked. I rarely see them on the road, read about them in magazines, or even see them for sale at various new or used dealerships. The G is the Infiniti car everyone knows... and then the trucks.

I think an RL, which is about as under the radar as the M, would be embraced by the market more readily than the M has been... ever.

[lucifer1]

Looks like it still has plastic door panels on $50K+ car.

[oneoffaccord]

I really dont know why honda axed the HSV10. I think it wouldve been a great contender for alot of the cars out there. honda knows what they are doing but they need to let go and go for it. How honda got in with the HSV10 in SUPER GT and it not being a production car is beyond me.

[GHOST 2.2]

I don't know How honda got in with the HSV10 in SUPER GT and it not being a production car is beyond me.

It was a production ready car. So it was able to compete. Honda got away with that excuse.

Plus those hsv10 took the 1&2 finish I believe.

[crazymikey]

The grills look amazing. To me it's like a bit of super car looks trickled down.

No thanks. It's so unnecessarily gaudy.

This is the puckered ass hole I was talking about earlier.

[WhiteShift]

haha... this is so bad.......... look this freakly ass... disastrous!

[owequitit]

I don't think the color on the concept does it much justice.







After seeing the video, and seeing it in some colors other than boring silver/beige, I think it is actually a very good looking and well proportioned car. A little more front overhang than I would like, and not as much space between the wheel well and door, but overall a very nice looking car for the segment. Keep in mind too that this car will play somewhere in the 5 series to 7 series class, and those models all have distinctive family styling, but aren't exactly known for their risk taking design wise.

That said, I don't know how it will be received by the market due to the hybrid factor, but engineering wise, it actually brings quite a bit to the table.

First, it is barely larger than the old car, but has rear seat accommodations on par with the Lexus LS, which is MUCH larger. Considering how tight the back seat of the current RL is, that is pretty impressive. It is even more impressive that this car won't add a lot of weight to accomplish the increase in room.

From a technical standpoint, there is a lot of interesting stuff here too:

1) The application of individual wheel based electric hybrid assist is not only novel, but it takes the capabilities of SH-AWD and expands them quite a bit. Not only is the car capable of providing thrust without utilizing engine power (allowing it to boost at any RPM), but it is capable of producing more yaw, and regen braking at the same time. The other advantage to the setup with the motors on the axles and tranny output shaft (there are 3 of them), is that due to the relatively low speeds of these parts, the electric motors will be in their most beneficial RPM and power range pretty much all of the time. Unlike cars like the CR-Z where the efficiency of the IMA tapers off as engine revs build (due to it being coupled between the engine and tranny input), e-SH-AWD shouldn't have that problem. It will allow electric only operation, etc. Likely total output will be ~380-400HP and ~350-400 lb-ft of torque. Those are V8 numbers, and it will likely end up with a superior to V8 total delivery. Acura is saying "370+ horsepower" but at one point when talking about the NSX, Ito confirmed that the roughly 400HP of the RL's powertrain wouldn't be sufficient for supercar, even though the basic concept would be the same.

If this car gets 400HP, it will end up with a power to weight ratio of nearly 10:1 which is pretty incredible. I think if it doesn't come with the usual hybrid compromises, then people will be more willing to embrace it. $5-7 gas won't hurt either, and Obama has made it quite clear that is where he wants it to go.

The active rear steer (being called "PAWS") on the FWD version seems like it has a ton of potential as well. By steering the rear wheels a few degrees, they can simultaneously improve handling and stability, as well as possibly mitigate torque steer.

Finally, feature wise, this car will have some pretty cool stuff for the cabin as well.

Like I said, time will tell if it gets accepted to the marketplace, but this car adds enough new technology to hold it on the level of any car in Honda's past, and that is a good thing.

[RagingAsian]

EH, looks like another cookie cutter.

[HondaB18]

hey owequitit do you know what the awd bias is like for normal driving and slippage?

[deevergote]

I don't think the color on the concept does it much justice.
After seeing the video, and seeing it in some colors other than boring silver/beige, I think it is actually a very good looking and well proportioned car. A little more front overhang than I would like, and not as much space between the wheel well and door, but overall a very nice looking car for the segment. Keep in mind too that this car will play somewhere in the 5 series to 7 series class, and those models all have distinctive family styling, but aren't exactly known for their risk taking design wise.

That said, I don't know how it will be received by the market due to the hybrid factor, but engineering wise, it actually brings quite a bit to the table.

First, it is barely larger than the old car, but has rear seat accommodations on par with the Lexus LS, which is MUCH larger. Considering how tight the back seat of the current RL is, that is pretty impressive. It is even more impressive that this car won't add a lot of weight to accomplish the increase in room.

From a technical standpoint, there is a lot of interesting stuff here too:

1) The application of individual wheel based electric hybrid assist is not only novel, but it takes the capabilities of SH-AWD and expands them quite a bit. Not only is the car capable of providing thrust without utilizing engine power (allowing it to boost at any RPM), but it is capable of producing more yaw, and regen braking at the same time. The other advantage to the setup with the motors on the axles and tranny output shaft (there are 3 of them), is that due to the relatively low speeds of these parts, the electric motors will be in their most beneficial RPM and power range pretty much all of the time. Unlike cars like the CR-Z where the efficiency of the IMA tapers off as engine revs build (due to it being coupled between the engine and tranny input), e-SH-AWD shouldn't have that problem. It will allow electric only operation, etc. Likely total output will be ~380-400HP and ~350-400 lb-ft of torque. Those are V8 numbers, and it will likely end up with a superior to V8 total delivery. Acura is saying "370+ horsepower" but at one point when talking about the NSX, Ito confirmed that the roughly 400HP of the RL's powertrain wouldn't be sufficient for supercar, even though the basic concept would be the same.

If this car gets 400HP, it will end up with a power to weight ratio of nearly 10:1 which is pretty incredible. I think if it doesn't come with the usual hybrid compromises, then people will be more willing to embrace it. $5-7 gas won't hurt either, and Obama has made it quite clear that is where he wants it to go.

The active rear steer (being called "PAWS") on the FWD version seems like it has a ton of potential as well. By steering the rear wheels a few degrees, they can simultaneously improve handling and stability, as well as possibly mitigate torque steer.

Finally, feature wise, this car will have some pretty cool stuff for the cabin as well.

Like I said, time will tell if it gets accepted to the marketplace, but this car adds enough new technology to hold it on the level of any car in Honda's past, and that is a good thing.

I think it's a shame that both the outgoing RL and incoming RL are packed with interesting technology that will likely go ignored by most people.
From my understanding of the market (and MAYBE it's shifting), people who buy large, expensive, top of the line luxury cars expect RWD, V8 power, and really not much else. Fuel economy (though now becoming very strictly government mandated), handling, and innovative technology are the stuff tech geeks drool over, but not the general luxo-barge buying market. Even if the V6 in a luxo-barge is making V8 power.

The only twp companies that seem to be exploring innovative options in their luxury lines right now are Acura and Lincoln. Lincoln is already being mentioned in car magazines as "stepping away from the luxury market" due to a lack of V8 power and RWD. Acura has never had these things (which is why they've always been a bit of a redheaded stepchild...) but perhaps that puts them in a good tactical position. If the market shifts toward Acura's current stance, then they'll the the frontrunner in the market. If not, I don't imagine this car will be received as well as Acura hopes.
The current RL is an absolutely beautiful car. Serene, smooth, powerful, stable... and it is an absolute snore.

[owequitit]

hey owequitit do you know what the awd bias is like for normal driving and slippage?

Honda has not released that information. Each of the motors on the rear is ~25-30HP, and theoretically, they can make it anything they want. Of course, the mechanical version of SH-AWD is completely capable of a 0/100 torque split, but Acura limited it to 30/70 at its most rearward biased. I see AWD in this case being more conservative because of the relative power split between the front and rear axles. However, the torque is being applied directly to the axles, so that has a major effect in the amount of torque being applied at the wheels, and the motors won't be spinning very fast, so it will probably feel a lot strong than it looks on paper.

I think it's a shame that both the outgoing RL and incoming RL are packed with interesting technology that will likely go ignored by most people.
From my understanding of the market (and MAYBE it's shifting), people who buy large, expensive, top of the line luxury cars expect RWD, V8 power, and really not much else. Fuel economy (though now becoming very strictly government mandated), handling, and innovative technology are the stuff tech geeks drool over, but not the general luxo-barge buying market. Even if the V6 in a luxo-barge is making V8 power.

The only twp companies that seem to be exploring innovative options in their luxury lines right now are Acura and Lincoln. Lincoln is already being mentioned in car magazines as "stepping away from the luxury market" due to a lack of V8 power and RWD. Acura has never had these things (which is why they've always been a bit of a redheaded stepchild...) but perhaps that puts them in a good tactical position. If the market shifts toward Acura's current stance, then they'll the the frontrunner in the market. If not, I don't imagine this car will be received as well as Acura hopes.
The current RL is an absolutely beautiful car. Serene, smooth, powerful, stable... and it is an absolute snore.

I think in most cases, that is not quite true. That is more a perception myth IMO. Here is why I think that:

First, if you look at sales in the upper end segments, large % of the cars are sold in AWD models. I.E. BMW is at something like 60% AWD sales total, and the more you go up the larger the % of AWD sales you see. Cars like the E and S class, the 5 and 7 series have large % of AWD sales. Same with Infiniti, Lexus and the others where offered. Cars like the A8 are only available with AWD.

I think the V8 was more an extension of needing to get big cars moving, and their big, smooth, wide torque delivery. That is why some of the newer boosted sixes are replacing V8's as the sales choice in bigger cars. I think it has less to do with V8 and more to do with power delivery and expected performance.

That said, this idea might work, if it can do that. The rated MPG isn't going to hurt in that regard as it nearly doubles V8 FE in some cases. MPG isn't necessarily the deciding factor, but the newer social norm is to use less and I don't see any penny pinching rich person not wanting the extra FE if they still get what they expect. Don't know if it will go over well or not, but I hope that for Acura's sake it does. Also, in the video it looks pretty damn good.