OPSEC message, story and link

[toycar]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/politi...html?hpt=hp_t2


So I read this article today, and then watched the 22 minute video

http://www.opsecteam.org/


I have to say, its a pretty strong message. I donated, and support the cause so I made a thread.


Id like to talk about the topic too, but really I wanted to do my part to try and get someone else to watch/learn about this.

It is very interesting, and honestly it is pretty important.

[BurtonRiderT6]

I agree with the fact that he may not have come out saying look what we did and how we did it but it did happen during his term and the investigation will find out one way or another. Obama "making good" on going after al qaeda and Osama is retarded, Bush initiated it, he just didn't pull out afterwords......like he promised.

I think this thread has the potential to get ugly.

**I only read the article.**

[toycar]

I hope it doesn't get ugly.





To me I felt the message was not of politics, but to seperate and draw attention to the need of a seperation.

The need for our secrets and our special forces to be viewed as "off limits" is more what I wanted to draw attention to.

I realize this could be spun as a sneaky publicity or political ploy, but to me it means "shut the fuck up about our military"




The video is far less opinionated then the story with literally no political undertone. It much more emphasizes on the nature of what we do to ensure security, and why the secrets need to stay secrets. There is an anti obama sentiment in the video, but its not because of democrats or republicans, its about the shit he has talked about that he shouldn't have. That, and generally when he does he is boasting about his accomplishments while telling the world our secrets. Really, classified should mean exactly that, and that is what this appears to be about.

I agree with this 100%


It also eluded to the idea that military is above politics in the grand scheme of things and should not be drawn into politics.

The video questioned why the united states ever admitted anything about the stuxnet virus, or why was it so important to tell the world minutes after Osama was killed. Why not wait and get the most out of the information like we usually do?

Because it was presented in politics. The seals and vet's in the video talk about how telling the world informed the people we are hunting faster. I think the way he described it was like rats running from a hole. We knew where the hole was after we pulled all that information from Osamas compound, but they scattered as soon as they found out we got him and the information basically became useless.


They also talked about the need to tell all the details and identify specifically seal team 6 and the operation name as well as how we found him in the first place.

Our enemy doesn't need to know that we are willing to conspire in another country, hire a doctor and use his medical venue to identify a target. The enemy doesn't need to know that we are that shady, but we need information to act. We need people to tell us stuff.

So when this doctor was found in Pakistan after the US blabbed all this shit about how we found bin laden, he was put in the Pakistani prison and given 33 yrs for helping us. Think another doctor is going to fill that void?

What if we need more information?


These among other reasons were examples given as to why secrets, need to be secrets. Pulling special forces into politics for clout and bragging rights about accomplishments, makes it impossible to pull off this type of mission in the future.

Thats the message of the video. Stop telling our secrets, or we wont be able to secure the country the same. Stop telling our enemies how we operate.



The story ended with a quote from a seal.


"If we tell a fucking terrorist we are coming to get him, how we find him, who is coming, how we are going to do it, me or some of my friends are going to die"


Pretty moving if you ask me.


This isn't politics, its security.

[Ralphie]

"If we tell a fucking terrorist we are coming to get him, how we find him, who is coming, how we are going to do it, me or some of my friends are going to die"

/thread.


It's really all been very distasteful and it really upsets me as I have served and I know just how fast lives can be lost especially today when information moves at the speed of light.

So many people give their lives to keep shit secret.

How many people are prisoners right now that haven't told a fucking thing but are being brutalized.

Have been beheaded...

had their bodies burned and dragged through the streets....

and these idiots use them as pawns.

Its just sad.


OFF TOPIC-

I thought you were more the kind of guy to sit back and not be so involved. At least that is how it sounded in Monica's thread....and here you are donating and shit.

Just aware of it, not trying to say it is this or that is all.

Cool shit!

[toycar]

You are 100% correct. With politics my position is to roll with it and make the best of life with what is being offered.

I do openly support the military every opportunity I can though. My wife and I send lots of stuff to random soldiers we dont know. I make soldier figures out of paper clips that are pretty cool that I send to troops at war.


Long story short of it I was a pussy and a criminal, and so I didn't/couldn't join. As I grew older, I regretted not joining.


Honestly, its something I struggle with. The military could use more people like me, and I was too stupid to know it when I was young enough to join.

Now that Im old balls, giving money and being appreciative is the best I can offer-so I do.

[Ralphie]

You are 100% correct. With politics my position is to roll with it and make the best of life with what is being offered.

I do openly support the military every opportunity I can though. My wife and I send lots of stuff to random soldiers we dont know. I make soldier figures out of paper clips that are pretty cool that I send to troops at war.


Long story short of it I was a pussy and a criminal, and so I didn't/couldn't join. As I grew older, I regretted not joining.


Honestly, its something I struggle with. The military could use more people like me, and I was too stupid to know it when I was young enough to join.

Now that Im old balls, giving money and being appreciative is the best I can offer-so I do.

Well to be honest, what your doing now is helping out more then you probably would have if you had joined, no shit.

I was never deployed to a combat zone, but I spent a year by myself in Korea and for the most part shit was cake but it was pretty lonely around the holidays.

I received a greeting card from time to time from random people and that shit ALWAYS brought a smile to my face.....just the sincerity and fact that they were doing it for no other reason then to put a smile on someone face.

I can only imagine how much that helps when your stuck in 120* heat with mortars being fired at you on the daily......not sure if your coming home every time you cross that wire.

[toycar]

Well to be honest, what your doing now is helping out more then you probably would have if you had joined, no shit.

I was never deployed to a combat zone, but I spent a year by myself in Korea and for the most part shit was cake but it was pretty lonely around the holidays.

I received a greeting card from time to time from random people and that shit ALWAYS brought a smile to my face.....just the sincerity and fact that they were doing it for no other reason then to put a smile on someone face.

I can only imagine how much that helps when your stuck in 120* heat with mortars being fired at you on the daily......not sure if your coming home every time you cross that wire.

I wish more people would do for the military. If we go out to eat and I see a military family I usually try to pick up the tab too. Its important to me to do whatever I can to give back(to the military)



Ill post a pic in a minute of one of the worriors I make. I said they were soldiers, but really they are just figures with weapons. You'll see, shit is amazing. My wife cooks candies and ships them over once a month since cookies would be stale by the time the arrived. I send random soldiers shit all the time for exactly the reason you mentioned.


The idea that it just might make it easier or give them some sort of peace. Like wilson was in cast away. Ive gotten a few letters back from people I sent them too and the general response was that they became basically like treasure to them.

Its hard to explain how good that made me feel the first time. After that, I send shit all the time. I realized that some guy gets shot at during the day and when he's trying to unwind, in his personal space, he gets a kick out of my art and it puts a smile on his face.


Anyways, Im surprised there hasn't been any response really to the thread. Maybe its because the video is 22 minutes long or people are afraid there is some sort of back door political agenda to the conversation.

It is worth watching and I think if people did they would understand that this is something worth supporting.


***Edit***

Pic of a couple figures I made;






Made a thread about unique art with more pic's too. Wanted to keep this thread about the message.

[BurtonRiderT6]

My girlfriend and I have also sent care packages before. Typically it's one for a female and one for a male. I get ESPN magazines and stuff that I never read so I'd just send them straight over. I have the internet for that stuff and they don't (most of them). The little warriors things are pretty cool. We never got any letters back but we figured there's more important things to take care of. If I had the money I would be more charitable with meals and such, but for now I just stick to my random acts of kindness at toll booths and parking garages (since that's all we can afford).

[Ralphie]

Anyways, Im surprised there hasn't been any response really to the thread. Maybe its because the video is 22 minutes long or people are afraid there is some sort of back door political agenda to the conversation.

.

Yea man that is what it's all about.

Before I joined, I rarely thought about the military.

When I was a kid, our class sent letters to soldiers.

I sent one to one in the first gulf war....and he wrote back....it is somewhere at my moms house.

Then 9/11 hit and I watched all these young guys that looked much like me driving through the desert to ensure that something like that never happened again and I was just blown away.

I was expecting to see old ass guys I guess....and I was seeing dudes my age and was like wtf am I doing here sitting around getting drunk every night.

So I signed up.

Now I understand what that sense of pride means and feels like.....when I see a flag....or hear our Anthem....or see pictures of soldiers saying goodbye to loved ones on tv and stuff.

It's crazy how much it changes you but for sure getting random things from people back home means more then words can describe....not only does it show that the American pop is behind you, but that someone was thinking of you.

It just rocks.

And those figurines are amazing....that is def some skill for sure.



As to why people don't post, this forum hasn't ever had a political thread make it past 3 or 4 pages so people are probably hesitant...

and also the majority of people have plenty of opinions when it comes to Presidents but when it comes to the US Military and our soliders people are usually more reserved....I guess maybe out of fear of insulting them and embarrassing themselves IDK!

[Grumpys93]

I totally agree with the keeping secrets secrets there is a reason stuff is classified because like the phrase goes "loose lips sink ships"

OFF Topic
I am currently serving in the USN. I just recently got back from a deployment, granted i know my deployments are nothing compared to the Army or Marine corp especially since i fly. But i have to admit it sucks being away like ralphie said during the holidays or special ocassions. While i was deployed i never received anything from a random person or expected it but i have friends that are over in the theater and have told me they have and loved every minute of it.

My own personal experience with random act of kindness was when i was in pensacola going through aircrew training, my buddies and i a total of 8 went out to waffle house and had breakfast. When we went to pay for the tab they told us the tip and tab was already paid for. We never saw the guy/girl or family who did it but it was an awesome feeling knowing people care about us.

I try to return the favor every chance i get. But the other thing too is ill admit sometimes more then not i feel like people take the military for granted and it can sometimes be a downer, but i think thats life in general.

[toycar]

I totally agree with the keeping secrets secrets there is a reason stuff is classified because like the phrase goes "loose lips sink ships"

OFF Topic
I am currently serving in the USN. I just recently got back from a deployment, granted i know my deployments are nothing compared to the Army or Marine corp especially since i fly. But i have to admit it sucks being away like ralphie said during the holidays or special ocassions. While i was deployed i never received anything from a random person or expected it but i have friends that are over in the theater and have told me they have and loved every minute of it.

My own personal experience with random act of kindness was when i was in pensacola going through aircrew training, my buddies and i a total of 8 went out to waffle house and had breakfast. When we went to pay for the tab they told us the tip and tab was already paid for. We never saw the guy/girl or family who did it but it was an awesome feeling knowing people care about us.

I try to return the favor every chance i get. But the other thing too is ill admit sometimes more then not i feel like people take the military for granted and it can sometimes be a downer, but i think thats life in general.

It is so true, general population has no idea what you guys go through to take care of the rest of us. I actually think people are disconnected and guilty of willfull blindness when it comes to the military. You guys risk your lives so we can be absent minded about freedom and national security.


I love my freedom, and have felt like a bitch for years for not joining. I was a criminal and a fuck up when I was younger. Once I got my head out of my ass it was too late, so anyway I can I give back I do.


The stuff these guys are talking about is real. Security CAN and IS being put in the line of fire when people cant keep their mouth shut. Not to mention there is always some anti gov sentiment from some home grown group or another that think they know whats best for the country, and they get this kind of information and it just fuels their anti-American agenda.

On all fronts, it is bullshit that anything gets leaked and we as people really dont need to know about it when it does happen. There is nothing good coming out of any of it, even if people do feel entitled to know the truth. Citizens dont know the first thing about military life, 99% of the time so they are not really in a position to speak on whats good, bad or acceptable. The facts that get leaked only divide the people and the politicians.

Look at how many years the US has had to live down the hype from agent orange. So what, we did it. It had to happen. Shitty, sure. But, in War the rules are different. When you deal with lawless savages, you have to be ruthless to win. Then, the people that were and are brave enough to stand up and fight for our rights, security and freedom-they get to come home to a divided country and bullshit in politics. Then there are random stupid people trying to convince soldiers that the war they just came home from was a conspiracy or some other stupid shit basically implying that they wasted their time, protecting our country. Fuck that.

Its fucked up that anyone in politics would campaign for or against the war, when the rhetoric they use shows no respect to the people actually risking their life. They can just throw out terms and statements with no regard to sacrifice or whats happening on the ground-for any reason. Political gain or not, its like they dont realize they contribute to the general population having fucked up feelings towards our soldiers.

So what the politicians think we should do something else, show a little respect to the cause while we figure it out man. Let the military and its advisors and the people elected to steer the ship do their job. Dont start riots, protests or anything of the sort.

These people give up everything, even their lives, for our country and should be treated as such. Even if you personally dont approve of the mission, respect the soldier. The soldier might not agree either, but for our country they do it anyways and should be respected for that.

Soldiers are not pawns or pieces on a board game. It pisses me off when some asshat with no military experience or compassion wants to act like he/she knows better or is in a position to talk about what is acceptable in warfare when they dont have the first inclination on how to handle a situation with national interest in mind.

[Grumpys93]

Well put. There are somethings the citizens dont need to know for their safety and well being. Imagine if we all knew that a giant asteriod was coming to destroy earth, i honestly wouldnt want to know because then i would stress out over it and not enjoy my last few minutes. i wont continue the military appreciation rant since that is not the topic at hand. But thanks for a being a supporter.

[ninethreecoupe]

Honestly, I've always thought about the security thing ever since I was younger watching the military channel and all the shit they have on there. I just always wondered why things like that were put out there where everyone can see them. Obviously they don't put the most secret shit out there but it's still the fact of. But I completely agree with everything said about the situation.

I've been a military child and still very much involved in it to this day. Part of the pissed offness about that shit and other things are because of the people I've met and had the honor to know over the years. I know a lot of people that just think people go in the military either because they don't know what to do with their lives or just want the status, but tell that to the thousands putting their lives on the lines. That includes people I know personally as well as my dad and step dad who were both deployed there. It just really irks me how unappreciative people are. I have flags that flew in Europe when I lived there as well as a flag from the USS Missouri in Pearl Harbor and one flown in one of the camps in the desert. Just the shear fact that I'm holding something of that importance that people look at to get their courage from means a lot to me especially because of my family military background. I also plan to go in as an officer after I finish school up.

But I won't get too much more into it but those figurines are badass. We used to send carepackages when I was younger but not lately unfortunately:/ It's a very good thing that you do.

Back to on topic as has been said, there are many things that should not even be spoken let alone spread across the internet and tv. Sometimes it's ridiculous what passes for "ok" to be told to the general public, especially just to boast. Sometimes it just gets to the point where it's like why don't we just let them(enemy) what we're planning ahead of time so they can be ready waiting.

[deevergote]

I'm not in a position to watch the video yet, but I did read the article.
Depending on what information was provided, I definitely support what is being said. Especially since a number of the people credited with Osama's death were killed.

As for the president taking credit for Osama's assassination... honestly, his primary role is indeed the Commander in Chief of our military... so essentially, as the military's ultimate leader, he IS entitled to take credit. In fact, he SHOULD be taking credit, and those that actually did it should've remained absolutely anonymous. Let our president be the target, not the troops that should be able to go back to their normal everyday lives once they've done their duty (no matter how important that duty may have been.)
Honestly, though... I never much cared who was in office. Our military had a goal, and it didn't really matter who was in charge. It was going to happen.

[toycar]

I'm not in a position to watch the video yet, but I did read the article.
Depending on what information was provided, I definitely support what is being said. Especially since a number of the people credited with Osama's death were killed.

As for the president taking credit for Osama's assassination... honestly, his primary role is indeed the Commander in Chief of our military... so essentially, as the military's ultimate leader, he IS entitled to take credit. In fact, he SHOULD be taking credit, and those that actually did it should've remained absolutely anonymous. Let our president be the target, not the troops that should be able to go back to their normal everyday lives once they've done their duty (no matter how important that duty may have been.)
Honestly, though... I never much cared who was in office. Our military had a goal, and it didn't really matter who was in charge. It was going to happen.

While I do agree that the president has some credit due to his part in Osama's death, I think he poorly chose his words in doing so.


But my grype is more about the secrets than the bragging rights. You are right, he is the commander. But now every tom, dick and harry knows what seal team six is, that we practice in espionage in foreign countries and conspire to manipulate people into a corner. That doctor that helped us get Osama got fucked. And im sure prison life in Pakistan is fucking awesome, especially if you are the guy that helped the United States.

Its mere speculation, but he may not have been caught if the media never got ahold of the story.

Just an example, but a good one. If we as a country could just let secrets be secrets-to some extent-it would be better for everyone. The whole nation gets divided over stupid shit like this and its not like them getting upset is going to prevent future shit or change history.

So, theres no reason to get upset but people cannot help themselves. So, theres no reason to tell them in the first place(my opinion)

I dont really care about whos in the office either.

Im gonna do my thing either way.