90 CB7 vs RSX

[fatboy1185]

both. stock form, and with bolt-ons K20Z1 owns H22a

Not exactly. Stock for stock, It makes the same power as a H22, so how does it "own" a h22a, besides the fact that it is in better condition most likely due to the fact it is newer?

With bolt ons only, it usually makes more power, but it also has higher compression stock, and the quality of bolt on's K series users use are much better than the average scrubby H22a owner who buys a dc header and intake off ebay.

[TypeG]

look me up on youtube. user name TypeGdizzle. the car i always film in has intake/RH/kpro. i have about 12 different h22 accords getting walked on that have the same and similar mods. since a lot of people say they are the same, we raced a bunch of them to see and make sure there were no flukes. and don't mind the turbo rsx i have in there.

don't get me wrong, h22's are awesome out of the box, but after having lots of real world experiance with k series, it makes me not want to bother with an h. later.

[fatboy1185]

look me up on youtube. user name TypeGdizzle. the car i always film in has intake/RH/kpro. i have about 12 different h22 accords getting walked on that have the same and similar mods. since a lot of people say they are the same, we raced a bunch of them to see and make sure there were no flukes. and don't mind the turbo rsx i have in there.

don't get me wrong, h22's are awesome out of the box, but after having lots of real world experiance with k series, it makes me not want to bother with an h. later.

H22 accords....running h22's tranny's i'm assuming? RSX tranny's have much better gearing, which helps a LOT.

Edit: I say this because this isn't an RSX vs Accord debate, it's purely and engine vs engine debate. Match h22 up with the same gearing as RSX tranny, and you will surprised.

[TypeG]

that's another thing we tested. ones with f trans and ones with h trans. we did rolls, digs, ect. didn't matter, outcome was same. later.

[fatboy1185]

that's another thing we tested. ones with f trans and ones with h trans. we did rolls, digs, ect. didn't matter, outcome was same. later.

My point is, even with the H22 tranny, the gearing is still NOT as good as a stock RSX-s tranny. The stock H22 tranny is very long geared. The type S tranny is much shorter, and has a better final drive also. So it is an unfair comparison to say the k20 is faster than the h22 because an RSX beat a h22 powered accord.

[ChampCoupe]

im not dissing h22a, i use to have a stock one and a full built and sleeved h22. and they were no comparison to the Kseries motors. They were the KING of there era, but now a new KING has stepped in.

[fatboy1185]

im not dissing h22a, i use to have a stock one and a full built and sleeved h22. and they were no comparison to the Kseries motors. They were the KING of there era, but now a new KING has stepped in.

Why, because everyone says they are? There is a 450whp NA F22a, that should be proof enough that any engine can be powerful with the right amount of money and research/testing. You can like whatever engine you want, but saying it is the best engine is stupid.

[ChampCoupe]

Why, because everyone says they are? There is a 450whp NA F22a, that should be proof enough that any engine can be powerful with the right amount of money and research/testing. You can like whatever engine you want, but saying it is the best engine is stupid.

ok we are talking about real world cars that get driven on a daily basis, not track cars that only run the quarter mile. so that 450hp is nowhere near streetable. a bone stock rsx will out perform an accord with a stock h22( meaning stock exhaust, intake, header, etc...). a rsx with bolt ons and a reflash will beat a h22 with bolts ons and a tune. and im not saying its the best motor ever made. im just saying its better than an h22.

[TypeG]

well, not saying it's the best, but it does have advantages, like a cam gear that is adjustable 50 degrees by the ecu and better headflow than an h. those kinds of things go along way for the powerband. just look at their dynos and compare. i've seen tons of k's make 230 hp with bolt-ons and stock internals. never seen an h with those numbers, unless they touch the internals. later.

[fatboy1185]

Yes, K's have more aggressive cam's. But fully built vs fully built it's debatable. And $$ vs horsepower it's very debatable. I don't think anyone is saying a stock cb7 with a h22 will out perform a stock RSX. The statement I responded to said K20>H22, which is very debatable.

[CB7 Sleeper]

Yes, K's have more aggressive cam's. But fully built vs fully built it's debatable. And $$ vs horsepower it's very debatable. I don't think anyone is saying a stock cb7 with a h22 will out perform a stock RSX. The statement I responded to said K20>H22, which is very debatable.

I agree, not hating on the K series, because it is the new bad boy of this era, but stock for stock, the K does not "own" the H22a.

With a built motor, or even bolt-ons, of course the K is going to make more power. The engine was genially designed. The compression is higher, the head flow is very impressive, and the over-all design is intelligent compared to the H. Even considering the H22a was ahead of it's time when first engineered, but that's just what Honda does. That is what they will always do.

Now when you compare money spent to horsepower increase, I think that's going to be debatable. Sure, K series modifications are going to be more expensive, but because of the design of the engine and the quality of the parts, the K series is going to make more power with less modification, whereas the H is going to need more parts, therefor equaling more money spent to make the same power. So in a sense, the are equal.

As for power potential, the both have awesome potential being that they are both designed well beyond their time. The H22a was very impressive when it debuted in the early 90's and the K series is just as impressive when it came out. They have awesome potential and are but when the H came out, the first modifications weren't as impressive as the modifications that came out shortly after the K series came out. Of course, now this is a whole different ball game due to the fact that technology has changed and the current modifications that are coming out for the H are way better compared to the way they were way back when.

But when all is said and done, the K is going to make more power later on I'm sure as techno0logy advances, and as it advances, the H series will soon grow old and become outsourced, becuase it will become less common, K series will be cheaper, people will be purchasing more K series for swaps, the aftermarket companies are going to start focusing more on the K series than the H, and things will change. The only guys to bring back the H will be those willing to venture into the old-skool territory like Bisimoto I'm sure and the K series, which is already superior due to it's new introduction to the market, and the fact that modification for it will continue to grow.

In the end, the K series wins due to it's age and relevance to this new era of tuning. The H is still a reputable engine for now, but for how long is the question? Stock for stock, yes, the engines are equal when transmission gearing and design aren't taken into account. Strictly power output. But, as far as power potential, price of modification, age, and other relevant factors to the topic at hand go, the K series will forever be superior. At least until Honda comes out with something new.

Later.

[CB7 Sleeper]

Honda has always been amazxingly engineering engines. N/A four cylinder engines that they were making in the 90's and even in the 80's, shit, even in the beginning, when they were making motorcycles, have always been very impressive and ahead of their time. The power output they have made in the past with N/A applications has always been ridiculously amazing to me at least. Many other auto manufacturers could not make the power Honda was making with N/A four cylinder applications.

To this day some of them still cannot. Just look at GM, in order to make 200 hp out of their Cobalt SS when it came out, it had to be supercharged. Now, why couldn't they engineer it to do that N/A? Are they incapable? No, I'm not saying that, if they put more effort into the technology to engineer their vehicles, they could do the same. All auto manufacturers could do the same. It's that they do not spend the money to do so, or take the time. Well, maybe this is just my opinion, but it's what I believe so far, and I haven't had anybody tell me otherwise. I know h22spakle has a little more information on the Cobalt SS and maybe he can provide some information on the background of the design, but this is how I feel. I'm not hating the Cobalt SS, it is a very impressive vehicle from a certain perspective, considering the new turbocharged ones are putting down around 250 hp. I am just using it as a example.

All in all, I am a fan of Honda because they are consistently surprising their followers with expertly and intelligently designed vehicles. The engines, the cars period, are amazing, simply put. This is why I am a fan of Honda, and this is why I will continue to purchase my cars from Honda.

[ChampCoupe]

stock for stock, the k20 put out less torque, the k24 puts out more power and toque. the compression ratio of a k24 is the same as an h22. the kseries was desgin to out perform previous motors. built for built, the highest whp i have seen a h22 put out is right around 300whp. i have seen kseries put down 330+whp.

as far as the h and f series. i would put money into a Fseries, bc it has more potential, and im sure you can find one that some one is die to get out of there garage.

it will be years before you start seeing kswaps on the road like you see hswaps, bseries swap. simply bc there are still stock piles of these motors over seas, price, and easy of swap. even if you get a kswap for 1k (motor and tranny) you are still gonna need about 4k for kpro, axles, wiring harness, new radiator, shifter/cables, clutch lines, etc...

[CB7 Sleeper]

stock for stock, the k20 put out less torque, the k24 puts out more power and toque. the compression ratio of a k24 is the same as an h22. the kseries was desgin to out perform previous motors. built for built, the highest whp i have seen a h22 put out is right around 300whp. i have seen kseries put down 330+whp.

as far as the h and f series. i would put money into a Fseries, bc it has more potential, and im sure you can find one that some one is die to get out of there garage.

it will be years before you start seeing kswaps on the road like you see hswaps, bseries swap. simply bc there are still stock piles of these motors over seas, price, and easy of swap. even if you get a kswap for 1k (motor and tranny) you are still gonna need about 4k for kpro, axles, wiring harness, new radiator, shifter/cables, clutch lines, etc...

I know this, this is why I brought age into this discussion as a factor. I stated a basis for my argument solely on the fact that the H has been out for quite a while compared to the K. I made numerous points off this argument.

When the H came out, you weren't seeing many of the swaps on the road right off the bat. It took years for it to happen. Just as it will for the K.

[olock13bt]

look me up on youtube. user name TypeGdizzle. the car i always film in has intake/RH/kpro. i have about 12 different h22 accords getting walked on that have the same and similar mods. since a lot of people say they are the same, we raced a bunch of them to see and make sure there were no flukes. and don't mind the turbo rsx i have in there.

don't get me wrong, h22's are awesome out of the box, but after having lots of real world experiance with k series, it makes me not want to bother with an h. later.

Well there is a giant flaw in that statement: You have more power then those accords, a good race header on that car can make 15-20whp, and I have seen k-pro's make 15whp in stock form, plus you add an intake, maybe 5whp, atleast that was the number I saw on my RSX-S. The car makes 170ish whp in stock form, after those mods you are looking at 205-215WHP (there are plenty of cases out there that make even more then 215WHP, but let's stay conservative) verse a car that is putting down maybe 185WHP.

Now ChampCoupe said in the, H22 drag times, that he ran a 14.5 with 185WHP with similar mods to you (1996 Accord 4DR EX (3020lbs) which is 140-200lbs heavier then a CB7 and almost 300lbs heavier then a RSX-S), it's hard to find an RSX-S with 185WHP running 14.5, there are a few but not many. Then again it's hard to find a GOOD running, GOOD compression, H22 trans, Accord out there, so many of them have bad compression or bent valves and dont even know it. I don't doubt that you raced those cars and beat them, you should. But stock RSX-S vs. an H22 is a driver's race.

ChampCoupe: "a bone stock rsx will out perform an accord with a stock h22" Its completely a drivers race, same horsepower, close to the same weight (RSX-S 2767lbs vs. CB7 2733-2987lbs) depending on style Accord and driver weight, so it comes down to the Accords torque vs the RSX-S gearing. No clear winner, this debate will go on forever.