How much boost for DSM setup?

[McCanic]

hey, im new to the forums and hondas.
im going to be getting a accord probly 90-93 and i was wondering what the max psi is for stock internals.
im familiar with turbos, and i want to do the dsm set up with it.
thanks,
names jake.

[evil_demon_01]

Since you asked the psi for a DSM setup, which clearly No-one else in this thread read . . .

14B - 8-10psi
16G - 10-12psi

That is a safe estimate dependent on tuning and engine condition.

[McCanic]

Since you asked the psi for a DSM setup, which clearly No-one else in this thread read . . .

14B - 8-10psi
16G - 10-12psi

That is a safe estimate dependent on tuning and engine condition.

is that safe for everyday use?
i also want to tune the EUC and stuff timing too. i plane on getting the h23 intake and manifold delta 272 cam. and not on the v-tec motor.
so my next question would be what chip for the ECU is the best?

[evil_demon_01]

It is safe if it is properly tuned.

Why do you want to use a NA 272 cam for turbo?
There are quite a few options for chipping - Hondata, chrome, or you could even go full standalone for something like a Haltech ECU.

I think you need to do a little more research first.

[drummersteve7]

sometimes people that are more advanced need to step back a minute and realize their roots.

not everyone can know everything right off the bat.

some of the mods need to realize this!

[tonytoka1979]

i plane on getting the h23 intake and manifold

can some one please tell me what H23 the manifold is comming off of.. im sorry for hijacking this thread but im going nucking futs trying to find details on what H23 intake everyone is putting on the F22.. is there a difference between the non vtec, and vtec H23 intake manny?

[deevergote]

With a 20 year old engine, it is impossible to say what will be "safe". There are just too many unknown variables to give you a solid answer. You may blow up in the first 5 minutes, or you may have luck for a year. The psi ranges that evil_demon_01 suggested will be relatively safe on a well tuned stock motor that is in good condition. However, the stock ringlands are fairly weak under boost, and they will give out eventually, no matter how healthy the engine may be. Also, using a small turbo such as the 14b can generate quite a bit of heat. Excessive heat kills engines. I would suggest spending a little more and getting something other than an old turbo that came stock on a 2.0L engine (and was pretty damn small on that, even!)

You ask "what chip would be best", which suggests that you have very little understanding of what is involved in tuning an ECU. There is no generic "chip" that you can plug in and expect to have a reliable turbo motor. The best you're going to find is a basemap, good enough to get your car running well enough to be tuned. You should never, NEVER, expect to drive a turbo car on any fuel map that wasn't tuned for your specific setup.

Don't just start throwing parts at your motor. Understand what goes into a safe, reliable turbo motor, and buy only those things that will help you achieve your goals. For example, an NA cam such as the 272 will provide a good deal of valve overlap. Fantastic for NA performance... but for turbo, you'll be blowing much of your intake charge right out the exhaust valves during that overlap period. Not only will this result in decreased performance, but the unburned fuel will very likely damage your oxygen sensor and catalytic converter... and it is very likely that it will ignite in the exhaust system, causing damage to your turbo and exhaust components. It could even be dangerous.

sometimes people that are more advanced need to step back a minute and realize their roots.

not everyone can know everything right off the bat.

some of the mods need to realize this!

What are you referring to? The deletion of bad information that may very well lead this guy to damage his engine if he follows it? Because that's much of those posts were.

Not everyone knows everything right off the bat... that's why they ask, and that's why those that DO know try to help them. Asking why he chose certain parts isn't meant to be insulting... it's merely gauging the extent of their knowledge, or lack thereof. This guy clearly has some misconceptions that need to be cleared up before he can truly understand any advice given to him.

can some one please tell me what H23 the manifold is comming off of.. im sorry for hijacking this thread but im going nucking futs trying to find details on what H23 intake everyone is putting on the F22.. is there a difference between the non vtec, and vtec H23 intake manny?

Start your own thread. This thread is not about the H23 intake manifold.

[bmxboi23]

It is safe if it is properly tuned.

Why do you want to use a NA 272 cam for turbo?
There are quite a few options for chipping - Hondata, chrome, or you could even go full standalone for something like a Haltech ECU.

I think you need to do a little more research first.

200k F22 + Used DSM Turbo + Full Standalone = Win

[deevergote]

200k F22 + Used DSM Turbo + Full Standalone = Win

Do you have anything useful to add to this thread?

[rexload]

Just a couple of random thoughts on turbocharging...

First of all, don't limit yourself to DSM. IMO there are other affordable options.
DSM parts in good condition are harder and harder to find. For example, I bought my DSM 450cc injectors for $40 and was able to sell them for $100 two years later... which probably means that ones that aren't in a questionable condition are harder to find.
DSM turbos are cheap but once again, the ones that are not in a questionable condition are going to cost more than $100 and most of them will still need a rebuild.
DSM manifolds need to be redrilled which you need a drill press for. And even when redrilled, they don't line up with the F22 ports 100%. To some it may not be a big deal, but it really bothered me. There are log manifolds available for pretty cheap that are made for F22.

That being said, I think DSM can be a great cheap setup if done right.

As mentioned above, the 14B is a bit on the small side for the F22. Don't get me wrong, it is a "fun" turbo with extremely quick spool and it does make respectable power. But the problem is the heat it produces. IMO only go 14B if your driving is mostly highway in a cooler climate where your intercooler will always be getting good cool airflow.

When doing a cheap turbo setup, I think the question you have to ask yourself is whether it is worth your time. So, if you shop around, you can get a 90-93 Accord and your basic DSM setup with a chipped ECU and a street tune... for pretty cheap. But you will end up with an old car with a junkyard turbo setup. I can almost guarantee you that a year or two down the road (possibly sooner) you will start having to fix stuff.

I am not saying that the Accord is a bad car to mod. Not at all. What I am saying is if you want a car that will run right, do it the right way. Meaning everything from your engine to your engine mounts and suspension to your turbo parts and engine management better be done right and better be reliable. If you don't, then you end up with a car that needs time/work/money. And when you do do it right, rebuilding all DSM parts may not be cheaper than just buying new brand name parts.

EDIT: To answer the OP's question. From what I have seen and from my personal experience, a stock F22 can withstand close to 300whp for daily use. However, there is A BIG "HOWEVER"... This means that your engine better be extremely low mileage/well maintained or rebuilt to factory specs with OEM Honda parts. This means that your turbo better be properly sized and your intercooler better be properly sized. This means you better have ZERO boost leaks and minimal restrictions in your setup and your setup better be as efficient as possible. This means, your engine management better not be some type of a ghetto "hack" and better be tuned PERFECTLY. And most importanly, you will not be racing everyone at every light.

[McCanic]

thanks for the info guys!

so you people that have done the dsm set up, how did you do it?
what did you do to the ecu?
im not trying to trow crap together, i want to do it right becouse i want this for a daily driver. and no i wont be racing everying one off the light. i know what happends to a engine and a car if you beat on it 24/7!
maybe a turbo isn't that way to get some more hp out of my engine?

[rexload]

thanks for the info guys!

so you people that have done the dsm set up, how did you do it?
what did you do to the ecu?
im not trying to trow crap together, i want to do it right becouse i want this for a daily driver. and no i wont be racing everying one off the light. i know what happends to a engine and a car if you beat on it 24/7!
maybe a turbo isn't that way to get some more hp out of my engine?

The F22 can make decent power naturally aspirated w/ the 272 or bisi stg2 cam and bolt-ons, much more than stock but less than a decent turbo setup.

No matter what you do, if you are planning on making ~30-40hp+ over stock, you need to convert to a fully tunable chipped ECU, some type of tuning program, and then find a tuner with experience in Hondas.

[McCanic]

The F22 can make decent power naturally aspirated w/ the 272 or bisi stg2 cam and bolt-ons, much more than stock but less than a decent turbo setup.

No matter what you do, if you are planning on making ~30-40hp+ over stock, you need to convert to a fully tunable chipped ECU, some type of tuning program, and then find a tuner with experience in Hondas.

one of my buddys is going to school for an inports. he has an h swaped civic
he know quite a bit about h22's but thats not want i want to do becouse everyone puts the h in the accord.
for a high school kid what do you think is the best opition for me?

[deevergote]

Research is your best option. Learn the good and bad of all options that appeal to you. Then choose one, and focus on it. Don't get sidetracked, or you'll end up wasting a lot of time and money on an end result that you never achieve.

And not choosing an engine because "everyone has it" is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.


We will help you with technical questions, but we are not here to tell you what you do and do not want to do. You need to figure that out on your own, because you're the only one that matters to.

[rexload]

one of my buddys is going to school for an inports. he has an h swaped civic
he know quite a bit about h22's but thats not want i want to do becouse everyone puts the h in the accord.
for a high school kid what do you think is the best opition for me?

Your best bet is to drive as many cars as possible and decide for yourself what you want. I know is hard to find a turbo Accord to test drive. But you could at least drive an Accord and then try to drive/ride in a turbo Honda... and kinda put the two together and decide if you want a turbo Accord. Then do more research online, understand how much work it is to turbocharge a car and keep it reliable, and then decide if it is worth your time. It may be easier to just buy a car that is already relatively fast in stock form.

An H22 is not a bad option at all IMO. But once again, you won't know if that is what you want until you drive it. Drive an H22 Prelude and see if you want an H22.
An H22 Civic/CRX is always a good option that is reliable fast and cheap... but once again, only if you do it right.