Frank motor......

[wed3k]

well, thats was with cam, cam seal and rocker assembly.

cheaper if it is just the head itself and no disassembly/assembly

[PR CB7]

pebojelly...... and you expect me to take you seriously

explain something to me deev, why in denial
meyagi, wicked, crzy tuning have built these motors with no problems
honda tech is full of hybrids, this was even featured in a magazine whose 80% of readers dont know what the fuck theyre doing except follow instructions

i know you would do anything to persuade newbs from this build like these, but the "WHAT A STUPID FUCKING IDEA" is what gave birth to a stupid thread like this one, everyone fears you, and will follow anything you say
so if you want people to stop with the g22 bullshit, lead by example and inform people the real info, not g22 is imposible, because its a 5 cylinder

the motor has been done, it works and when treated right it WILL last you the SAME as ANY other honda engine, will it out perform a h22a, no
will it out perform any stock cam f22a yes period
praise the lord

[WiKKeDV16]

(pops open a corona)... good man...

[pebojelly]

I am new here,simply was reading over and over new members asking if they slap a H head on the F will it work.So I was trying to post a thread people could jump in a state facts about the pro's,con's vs the expense.

The problem is simply most new members/kids who ask about a frank motor build are looking for a H22a look and performance for $500 or less.


I guess the proper way to do or say this was.

Yes it will work,but the cost of doing this right vs the gain is not worth it IMO.

If your comparing apples to apples though.

If your going to spend 800-1K to build a frank motor(done right) why not find a JDM or USDM H to swap in.Or really be a leader of the pack.Build your F,most talk about doing it,few do it.

If your looking for power then this is simply the way to go.

Now if you want to say look what I made mom! then your G22 is your way to go.

[deevergote]

pebojelly...... and you expect me to take you seriously

explain something to me deev, why in denial
meyagi, wicked, crzy tuning have built these motors with no problems
honda tech is full of hybrids, this was even featured in a magazine whose 80% of readers dont know what the fuck theyre doing except follow instructions

i know you would do anything to persuade newbs from this build like these, but the "WHAT A STUPID FUCKING IDEA" is what gave birth to a stupid thread like this one, everyone fears you, and will follow anything you say
so if you want people to stop with the g22 bullshit, lead by example and inform people the real info, not g22 is imposible, because its a 5 cylinder

the motor has been done, it works and when treated right it WILL last you the SAME as ANY other honda engine, will it out perform a h22a, no
will it out perform any stock cam f22a yes period
praise the lord

It is not a G series. Never was. Never will be.

You see, me saying it's a bad idea doesn't stop people like you, lodollar, wikked, crzy... because you guys all have 2 things in common: 1) actual engine-building knowledge, and 2) the willingness to try something on your own. Not a single one of you asked to be spoon-fed. THAT is the difference. My comments will not discourage guys like you, as you have clearly demonstrated. My goal is to discourage the feeble-minded tuners. The lazy tuners. The ones that are just looking for an easy, cheap H22 alternative, or a cheap "good for boost" motor because some tool on honda-tech told them that FRM sleeves are bad. Those people have no business building a hybrid if the first thing they do is ask "hey, my boi has a h22 head and i wanna put it on my f22 block can you tell me everything i need to do that?" Do YOU want to be the guy that holds their hand every step of the way, and then get blamed when they screw it up? I know I don't.

Let the smart ones decide for themselves. In the meantime, I'll continue to keep the rest of the herd in the safe pasture.
And I know who the post-whores and ass-kissers are, don't worry.

[PR CB7]

On the other hand this motor can be built with a lot less money, wont say how much to stop on encouraging new memebers, but if price is the object
i found a j32a2 motor only and ecu for $300.this reminded me the JY is your friend, again i made my point and im happy (pops open corona 9:50am )

[Cobalt]

i found a j32a2 motor only and ecu for $300.

*instigate* You wont! */instigate*

If you do I want a ride.!

[WiKKeDV16]

perks of the J.O.B. huh oscar? lmao..

[deevergote]

On the other hand this motor can be built with a lot less money, wont say how much to stop on encouraging new memebers, but if price is the object
i found a j32a2 motor only and ecu for $300.this reminded me the JY is your friend, again i made my point and im happy (pops open corona 9:50am )

When you know how, sure. When you don't know what you're doing, it gets expensive replacing head gaskets, bent valves, rod bearings...

I couldn't build a hybrid that I would be comfortable relying on for anywhere near what I could spend for a full H22 from a reputable dealer. I would trust that H22 much more than whatever I could build for less than that cost.

[98vtec]

When you know how, sure. When you don't know what you're doing, it gets expensive replacing head gaskets, bent valves, rod bearings...

I couldn't build a hybrid that I would be comfortable relying on for anywhere near what I could spend for a full H22 from a reputable dealer. I would trust that H22 much more than whatever I could build for less than that cost.

you learn from your mistakes. Thats part of racing and building engines that didnt come together from the factory.

Hybrid motors are just as reliable as any motor from the factory when all precautions of reliability have been taken.

[WiKKeDV16]

thats what we all tell him.. (tell mike).. but.. he just fears the new guy destroying his car over a quest for more power..

but dont we all do that anyway?


swaps(f22b f20a/h22a etc)..

forced indcution?
boost... spray..

its all has the same equation for disaster.. if the right precautions arnt taken

forget to torque the arps down right.. there goes your hybrid

forget to hookup the wastegate line... there goes your motor

meh.. i think everyone has valid points.. but i just dont feel right about steering away a person who isnt knowledgable about motors.. just because they dont know

how many ppl didnt know how to install a dsm kit?

[deevergote]

I don't support installing a turbo without proper research either.



Anyone who asks "how do I do this thing that requires experience on my daily driver so I can have a cheap performance motor?" gets my usual answer.

If you know enough to properly build a hybrid, or a turbo motor, or anything highly performance oriented... you don't need to ask "how do I do this from beginning to end?"


Notice I don't come down very hard on the people that ask specific questions about hybrids. Only the ones that know nothing of assembling even a stock engine, let alone a custom one... and think it's an easy, cheap alternative to simply buying a full motor.




Trial and error is one thing. It is indeed the foundation of innovation. BUT, it is to be done cautiously, one step at a time, going on previously acquired knowledge and experience.
Blindly stumbling into something for the wrong reasons, or asking someone to spoon-feed you information on a project that is beyond your level of experience and knowhow... that's something completely different.

[gloryaccordy]

I have never opened an engine.

I have, but it was the first motor I destroyed. I didn't learn from it.

There are a lot of options for power in an Accord/Prelude chassis. For the novice, the "frank" seems like the worst route. I think people come from the LS-VTEC world (which has its own caveats) and think it's the same deal. It's obv not. For most people, an H22 will be more than enough, and for people who've built a tolerance to the H22, cheaper OEM power solutions like Type-S parts and the F22 crank/rod swap seem like good ideas...

[gloryaccordy]

thats what we all tell him.. (tell mike).. but.. he just fears the new guy destroying his car over a quest for more power..

but dont we all do that anyway?


swaps(f22b f20a/h22a etc)..

forced indcution?
boost... spray..

its all has the same equation for disaster.. if the right precautions arnt taken

forget to torque the arps down right.. there goes your hybrid

forget to hookup the wastegate line... there goes your motor

meh.. i think everyone has valid points.. but i just dont feel right about steering away a person who isnt knowledgable about motors.. just because they dont know

how many ppl didnt know how to install a dsm kit?

People have to crawl before they can run.... to tell someone to build a frank motor when they've never done a mod before just seems like an expensive way to get in over one's head.

An idea could be for an experienced tuner to go through a build w/a novice... or for someone to do a video or something on these motors

It's easy to talk about it... but actually doing it is a whole nother thing, and it just doesn't seem right to throw a noob into that kind of a challenge; especially with all the simpler ways to the same or better power out there. People should take the path of least resistance first, and then if they don't like that, blaze trails... I'm pretty sure that's how you, d112, bruno etc have come to be the experts you are.

[98vtec]

thats what we all tell him.. (tell mike).. but.. he just fears the new guy destroying his car over a quest for more power..

but dont we all do that anyway?


swaps(f22b f20a/h22a etc)..

forced indcution?
boost... spray..

its all has the same equation for disaster.. if the right precautions arnt taken

forget to torque the arps down right.. there goes your hybrid

forget to hookup the wastegate line... there goes your motor

meh.. i think everyone has valid points.. but i just dont feel right about steering away a person who isnt knowledgable about motors.. just because they dont know

how many ppl didnt know how to install a dsm kit?

i feel the same way, however, people need to be informed of the right ways of doing things. That typically means buying brand new parts instead of using used stuff, spending that extra bit at the machine shop, taking that extra time to blue print the bottom end..etc.

If you dont have the money to modify things correctly, you will find out pretty quickly when you do it wrong and it blows up. Its up to you to figure out what you did wrong and implement your wrongs for the next build so its right. The more you get hands on, the more you really know. You can read the internet for 10 damn years everyday and never touch a motor and think you know a few things but the internet doesnt teach you mechanics. At some point, like many of us, you figure out that you arent going to get any smarter or any better with engines without getting your hands dirty and trying something you have never done before.