F22 Frankenstein, B16A or H23A?

[deevergote]

These threads give me a headache that I can feel in my ass!

[GeoffM]

These threads give me a headache that I can feel in my ass!

I love looking for these threads, just because I know I can always find these posts!

[deevergote]

Slapping a DOHC VTEC head on a stock F22A block is like putting a hot girl's head on a fat dude's body. Sure, you get the pretty face... but everything down below will not be what you expect it to be!

[SOHC-FTW]

Slapping a DOHC VTEC head on a stock F22A block is like putting a hot girl's head on a fat dude's body. Sure, you get the pretty face... but everything down below will not be what you expect it to be!

Fat bitches need love to craig.

[tmsperformance]

Slapping a DOHC VTEC head on a stock F22A block is like putting a hot girl's head on a fat dude's body. Sure, you get the pretty face... but everything down below will not be what you expect it to be!

LOL that was funny. But I do agree and disagree with you on that.
I DO agree that bolting a h22 head on a STOCK f22a bottom end is kinda stupid only because of the compression ratio.
I DO NOT agree on parts of that because tons of power can be had from that setup you will just need to bump the compression up.
Regardless, that analogy is funny as hell.

[deevergote]

Why bother bumping the compression up with an F22A block? The bore size will still be different, so you'd need to address that. Especially with higher compression... detonation becomes a greater danger as you raise the compression.

If you want to raise the compression the easiest way to do that is to USE A DAMN H22A BLOCK!

There is no point in using an F22A block with an H22A head. Ever. There are no benefits to be had by doing this over using an H22A block. If cost is the reason, then bumping the compression in any way will at best make the cost of this hybrid equal to a full H22... but most likely will be considerably more expensive. And then you have to worry about reliability... and in my experience, the more parts an amateur touches, the greater the risk of something going wrong.

[tmsperformance]

Why bother bumping the compression up with an F22A block? The bore size will still be different, so you'd need to address that. Especially with higher compression... detonation becomes a greater danger as you raise the compression.

If you want to raise the compression the easiest way to do that is to USE A DAMN H22A BLOCK!

There is no point in using an F22A block with an H22A head. Ever. There are no benefits to be had by doing this over using an H22A block. If cost is the reason, then bumping the compression in any way will at best make the cost of this hybrid equal to a full H22... but most likely will be considerably more expensive. And then you have to worry about reliability... and in my experience, the more parts an amateur touches, the greater the risk of something going wrong.

This is why I love forums. Debate.
There are reason for using a f22 bottom end. The increase in stroke, People build engines for different application you know that. In my case I race autocross where having the added torque would be more beneficial to me that have a powerband way high up in the rpm range with limited torque. The bore difference really is not that big of a deal trust me. I tuned both of my engines the same way without having detonation issues due to bore differences. my h22 block had a stock 87mm bore with a f20b head 85mm bore on it with 13.3:1 on 93 pump gas. That engine did not knock due to bore sizes, matter of fact I was running 32* timing on it. The engine that I currently have in the car is a f20b 85mm block with 97mm f23a crank,rods with stock f20b pistons running 13.28:1 on 93 with 33* timing. As you see, im not limited to timing because of the differences in bore size its due to octane and compression. So there are applications that call for more torque which would entail increased stroke.

[cobratt03]

Wow damn..13.28:1 on pump.

f22 bottom end plus h22 head, whats that compression at? Seems to be a nasty DOHC turbo motor? yes i tried seaching and it say i cant go into that section.

[deevergote]

You can go into any section.

Why would an F22 bottom end and an H22 head be good for a nasty DOHC turbo motor?
(see, this is the reason why I say it's a bad idea... because people have no idea what they're talking about, and they spread misinformation.)

[cobratt03]

Wow damn..13.28:1 on pump.

f22 bottom end plus h22 head, whats that compression at? Seems to be a nasty DOHC turbo motor? yes i tried seaching and it say i cant go into that section.

I was asking a question not spending mis-information.

DUDE u need to get off the high horse! I could have sworn i was asking TMS a question.

AS for Nasty DOHC turbo motor. IDK low compression on a cheap DOHC motor? that y i was asking a question and not making a statement.

IDK i figured it was a FORUM where we are supposed to learn.

LIKE I SAID: Every time i go to search it says i cant do it. SO if you would like to fix that..i would love to use the search button more.

[cobratt03]

You can go into any section.

Why would an F22 bottom end and an H22 head be good for a nasty DOHC turbo motor?
(see, this is the reason why I say it's a bad idea... because people have no idea what they're talking about, and they spread misinformation.)

YES i am a newcomer! i am sure you prob know a ton about accords just as i do stangs.

How ever someone is always new at one point in time. And instead of saying i dont know anything how bout u fix the search button for me so i can learn or let me ask questions. We are not all as smart as you. so u should really give out chance to people. Every question you can learn something from.

[deevergote]

Google. Follow your query with site:cb7tuner.com. You will find whatever you want.

Low compression? Sure. Until you blow a ringland on a fragile 20 year old original piston. Nasty? Sure. If by "nasty" you mean it will break very quickly, even with a good tune.

What you said above was basically a statement followed by a question mark. Just as I assumed YOU believed that it would make for a nasty turbo motor, I know for a fact that I'm going to see "a stock f22 bottom end with an h22 head will be a nasty turbo motor!" posted by some ignorant noob in the next two weeks. Trust me.

If you want a cheap DOHC turbo motor, do it to a healthy, stock H22A... use properly sized turbo components, and tune it VERY carefully.
Building a frankenstein motor with an F22A block will cost you more in the end, because you'll be replacing a LOT of comonents (all things that should be changed on that H22 anyway... but they HAVE to be changed on the frankenstein as you assemble it...)
Building a frankenstein as an amateur means that your grubby little amateur hands are touching EVERYTHING. It's a great learning experience, but do you really expect it to last? If you're building a project car that you don't mind breaking 2 or 3 times before you get it right, fine... but most of the kids on here think they can slap a new head on, toss on some DSM turbo parts (or a $500 kit from ebay), and go out racing.
Additionally... for the more technical part of it... The F22A cylinder bores are a different size than the H22A combustion chamber bores. This means you will have a sharp edge protruding into your combustion chamber. Do you know what sharp edges do? They provide convenient locations for hot spots... causing detonation. Do you know what increases the potential for damage with detonation? Increasing compression, or introducing forced induction (both are topics that have been discussed as "good" reasons for building this motor.) Unless you're going to increase the size of the F22A bores to match that of the H22A head's combustion chambers (and that will be expensive), you are running the risk of detonation. Stick with a full H22A or F22A, and you won't have anything to worry about!


Shall I go on?


As for me being on my high horse... should I just say "go for it junior! sounds like a great idea!"
No, I'd rather educate people so they can make their own decisions. Do I sound a bit irritated? Sure... but only because I've already explained everything I just typed out above in about 2 dozen threads over the past few months. You don't even need to use the search feature... you can just flip back a few pages (or even page 1... there are 3 of these threads active right now!)



There is more involved in a "nasty" turbo motor than simply low compression... and low compression isn't necessary for a turbo motor. It just gives you a greater margin of error.

[deevergote]

YES i am a newcomer! i am sure you prob know a ton about accords just as i do stangs.

How ever someone is always new at one point in time. And instead of saying i dont know anything how bout u fix the search button for me so i can learn or let me ask questions. We are not all as smart as you. so u should really give out chance to people. Every question you can learn something from.

How about you stop making demands. K?

If you want to learn, read. That's how I learned.
I'm answering your question. You're just so concerned with telling me to fix the search button that you're not reading what I have to say. You see, tmsperformance is saying something you want to hear. I'm saying something you don't want to hear... therefore, I'm wrong, and he's right... correct?

OR, you could learn things on your own (your ability to obtain knowledge does not depend on my search button... believe it or not.) and make your own decisions. tmsperformance and I could both give you good reasons to either build or not build a frankenstein motor... but unless you know what we're talking about, you can only take our word for it. You're not asking for an education, you're asking to be spoon fed. There's a difference. We're not here to think for you.

I COULD theoretically provide plenty of reasons why it's a GOOD idea to build a frankenstein motor... however, lazy noobs that just want a cheap DOHC engine... or think that for some reason the H22's FRM sleeves are bad, or that 10.0:1 compression is too high for turbo (where did they get that misinformation? Probably regurgitated as fact on forums such as this one) Those people have no business building such a motor. They will NOT achieve the goals they have in mind. They will more than likely blow their budget to build a motor that won't last very long... if it starts at all.








Oh, and the search button is working fine for me. It took me 15 tries to get that error screen. No errors at all using the "advanced search" feature.

[tmsperformance]

If you are going to turbo your car your best bet would be o just keep your f22. Save up some money and get a good FI Bisimoto cam. Like I was trying to explain these engines are not for everyone and every application. Its very easy to get caught up in when my head is capable of revving to X rpm and its bolted onto this bottom end so I can rev it to X rpm. That is when components let go. I would have to agree that these motors should be just for the seasoned engine builders. Sure anyone can toss them together but when they fail, I / this site will be the one getting bashed caused it didnt work. If you really want to build it PM me I will tell you everything you need to do.

[cobratt03]

20 year old parts has nothing to do with being fragile..89 stang stock motor AND over 500hp on a single turbo is not hard to do. also i understand about ringlands breaking. OK so i will do research but if someone ask a damn question U need to not come off like a dick. explain not tell them there an idiot

"This means you will have a sharp edge protruding into your combustion chamber. Do you know what sharp edges do? " maybe you shouldnt' be a fucking dick like this comment here...i may be new to CB7..i aint new to building motors.

"No, I'd rather educate people so they can make their own decisions. Do I sound a bit irritated? Sure" Then dont answer and let someone actually explain y they shouldnt. Rather then expalining and call them an idiot at the same time.

"you're asking to be spoon fed" LOL...u need to fuck off..

10.0:1 compression is too high for turbo (where did they get that misinformation? Probably regurgitated as fact on forums such as this one) DID I SAY THAT? cause i def didnt...thats what octane is for.

IF you dont do things differently then your just following the crowd..if i remember correctly thats how the LSV came to be made.

Search now works and looking at DIY...

I GUESS THERE A JO on every board....i guess thats you.

I prob will build a SOHC F22. god knows i loved my 9.5:1 d series(stock bore) on 15 lb and pump putting out of 350 JUST SAYING FOR THE JO..


TMS----Well thank you Sr for offering but i will not waste ur time cause i wont do it till i get another bottom end and then i will contact you..BUT thanks for not calling me an idiot and offering your help!!!!!