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ram air question

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    #31
    Originally posted by turboHLS30 View Post
    The butt-dyno isn't always efficient. Usually it's all in your head for little things like SRI's, and CAI's. Routing more ait to it won't do anything because it will only take what it needs. Unless the incoming air is positive, such as in a turbo/supercharger application.

    A ram-air intake is any intake design which uses the dynamic air pressure created by vehicle motion to increase the static air pressure inside of the intake manifold on an engine, thus allowing a greater massflow through the engine and hence increasing engine power.

    The ram air intake works by reducing the intake air velocity by increasing the cross sectional area of the intake ducting. When gas velocity goes down the dynamic pressure is reduced while the static pressure is increased. The increased static pressure in the plenum chamber has a positive effect on engine power, both because of the pressure itself and the increased air density this higher pressure gives.

    Ram-air systems are used on high performance vehicles, most often on motorcycles and race cars. Ram-air has been a feature on some cars since the late sixties, but fell out of favor in the seventies, and has only recently made a comeback. Modern parachutes use a ram-air system to pressurize a series of cells to provide the aerofoil shape.

    At low speeds increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent. Given that the air velocity is reduced to zero without losses the pressure increase can be calculated according. The lack of losses also means without heating the air. Thus a ram-air intake also is a cold air intake. In some cars the intake is placed behind the radiator, where not only the air is hot, but the pressure is below ambient pressure. The ram-air intake effect may be small, but so are other mild tuning techniques to increase cylinder filling like using larger, fresh air filters, high flow mass flow sensors, velocity stacks, tuned air box and large tubes from the filter to the engine.


    Principle: Ram Air is the effect whereby air is encouraged to enter the engine at a much higher rate than would be expected through the mechanical action of the engine by itself. This is similar to the effect of forced induction, but without the need for a turbo or supercharger.

    Fact: Cold air is denser than hot air and therefore takes up less space. As such, if your engine can ingest cooler air, more air can be mixed with more fuel, which in turn provides more power. An additional benefit is that cooler air has a higher resistance to knock, allowing more ignition timing advance, or “boost” in supercharged applications. Either way, they both equal more power. This is the theory behind cold air intakes, ice on the manifold, intercoolers, manifold insulators, etc.

    Solution: One possibility for reducing intake air temperature is to install an aftermarket cold air intake, Another less expensive option is to draw-in, or “ram”, more cold air from an outside source. This is the idea behind the Ram Air Performance System.
    Last edited by Turbocutlass; 07-15-2011, 01:21 AM.

    93 cb7 ex coupe
    Granada Black Metallic

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
      ... This is the idea behind the Ram Air Performance System.
      Now apply that to the CB specifically.


      Form.Follows.Function

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        #33
        Originally posted by CBsevenTUNER View Post
        Now apply that to the CB specifically.
        re read the first 2 lines...

        93 cb7 ex coupe
        Granada Black Metallic

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
          re read the first 2 lines...
          And?

          What im saying is..How can we apply this to our CB's? That is a general overview of how a ram air system is supposed to work...not how it works with a 90-93 Honda Accord...


          Form.Follows.Function

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            #35
            Originally posted by CBsevenTUNER View Post
            And?

            What im saying is..How can we apply this to our CB's? That is a general overview of how a ram air system is supposed to work...not how it works with a 90-93 Honda Accord...
            theres tons on info on it if you google it.. 90% of the ram air systems are fed through the bumber... yes there's the hood style but thats not really to feasible on our cars imo... i have mine set up to be fed through the turn signal spot as i stated and it works great for me... and everyone that wants dyno proof its not going to happen because the car would have to be in a wind tunnel or something for the air to be moved as if you were driving..

            93 cb7 ex coupe
            Granada Black Metallic

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
              theres tons on info on it if you google it.. 90% of the ram air systems are fed through the bumber... yes there's the hood style but thats not really to feasible on our cars imo... i have mine set up to be fed through the turn signal spot as i stated and it works great for me... and everyone that wants dyno proof its not going to happen because the car would have to be in a wind tunnel or something for the air to be moved as if you were driving..
              mine is set up very similar to this, but to my filter and not a box..

              93 cb7 ex coupe
              Granada Black Metallic

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
                theres tons on info on it if you google it.. 90% of the ram air systems are fed through the bumber... yes there's the hood style but thats not really to feasible on our cars imo... i have mine set up to be fed through the turn signal spot as i stated and it works great for me... and everyone that wants dyno proof its not going to happen because the car would have to be in a wind tunnel or something for the air to be moved as if you were driving..
                You may have missed my point...None of this new info can be directly applied to the front end of a CB. Googling that won't help. Even the differences between 90-91 and 92-93 may have serious implications on the systems feasibility and efficiency.

                Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
                mine is set up very similar to this, but to my filter and not a box..
                Is the tube that feeds this ram air system of yours fed into an enclosure or just the engine bay near your filter? The latter can't be considered ram air..it's just cooling the engine bay with fresh air...


                Form.Follows.Function

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by CBsevenTUNER View Post
                  You may have missed my point...None of this new info can be directly applied to the front end of a CB. Googling that won't help. Even the differences between 90-91 and 92-93 may have serious implications on the systems feasibility and efficiency.



                  Is the tube that feeds this ram air system of yours fed into an enclosure or just the engine bay near your filter? The latter can't be considered ram air..it's just cooling the engine bay with fresh air...
                  its fed directly into the mouth of the filter... no enclosure... its not feeding the bay at all... and i don't know how it can be applied directly to the front of the cb, but its done the same way on tons of different cars... i realize that every car is going to be different on where air travels past and around and so on... but it seems like to me being that air is pushed through the same opening in the front bumper to blow over the radiator that its a decent spot to have it. im not saying its a massive difference or 20 or 30hp or something, im just simply stating that it works for me and has a decent affect on power, response and fuel mileage... that's all...
                  Last edited by Turbocutlass; 07-15-2011, 02:44 AM.

                  93 cb7 ex coupe
                  Granada Black Metallic

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
                    its fed directly into the mouth of the filter... no enclosure... its not feeding the bay at all... and i don't know how it can be applied directly to the front of the cb, but its done the same way on tons of different cars... i realize that every car is going to be different on where air travels past and around and so on... but it seems like to me being that air is pushed through the same opening in the front bumper to blow over the radiator that its a decent spot to have it. im not saying its a massive difference or 20 or 30hp or something, im just simply stating that it works for me and has a decent affect on power, response and fuel mileage... that's all...
                    Hmmm...i'll reserve judgement till we see this system in its entirety and until you have some numbers to show proof of any gains, other than those you suspect you're getting..since i believe your opinion is biased.

                    Im not trying to shut you down, im just trying to play devils advocate here...


                    Form.Follows.Function

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
                      A ram-air intake is any intake design which uses the dynamic air pressure created by vehicle motion to increase the static air pressure inside of the intake manifold on an engine, thus allowing a greater massflow through the engine and hence increasing engine power.

                      The ram air intake works by reducing the intake air velocity by increasing the cross sectional area of the intake ducting. When gas velocity goes down the dynamic pressure is reduced while the static pressure is increased. The increased static pressure in the plenum chamber has a positive effect on engine power, both because of the pressure itself and the increased air density this higher pressure gives.

                      Ram-air systems are used on high performance vehicles, most often on motorcycles and race cars. Ram-air has been a feature on some cars since the late sixties, but fell out of favor in the seventies, and has only recently made a comeback. Modern parachutes use a ram-air system to pressurize a series of cells to provide the aerofoil shape.

                      At low speeds increases in static pressure are however limited to a few percent. Given that the air velocity is reduced to zero without losses the pressure increase can be calculated according. The lack of losses also means without heating the air. Thus a ram-air intake also is a cold air intake. In some cars the intake is placed behind the radiator, where not only the air is hot, but the pressure is below ambient pressure. The ram-air intake effect may be small, but so are other mild tuning techniques to increase cylinder filling like using larger, fresh air filters, high flow mass flow sensors, velocity stacks, tuned air box and large tubes from the filter to the engine.


                      Principle: Ram Air is the effect whereby air is encouraged to enter the engine at a much higher rate than would be expected through the mechanical action of the engine by itself. This is similar to the effect of forced induction, but without the need for a turbo or supercharger.

                      Fact: Cold air is denser than hot air and therefore takes up less space. As such, if your engine can ingest cooler air, more air can be mixed with more fuel, which in turn provides more power. An additional benefit is that cooler air has a higher resistance to knock, allowing more ignition timing advance, or “boost” in supercharged applications. Either way, they both equal more power. This is the theory behind cold air intakes, ice on the manifold, intercoolers, manifold insulators, etc.

                      Solution: One possibility for reducing intake air temperature is to install an aftermarket cold air intake, Another less expensive option is to draw-in, or “ram”, more cold air from an outside source. This is the idea behind the Ram Air Performance System.
                      Not flaming you but I would not use a Wikipedia article that below its explanation only shows pictures of jet planes as a reference. I would also question many online links as anyone and their uncle can make a website and throw out their "thoughts" on the system. NOT saying your wrong but I as well would like to see numbers. I tend to agree with Deev that forced air into a system (that is not designed to take in this forced air to begin with) would be more detrimental than positive.


                      Bought from Darkcloud

                      http://wheelflip.com/r/DrAkE

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
                        ...i will get pix as soon as i can of it and post them...
                        ... i understand also where it would need solid proof. i will try to provide as much as possible...
                        Any updates/pics?


                        Form.Follows.Function

                        Comment


                          #42
                          It's plain and simple, you can't add a "scoop" until you know that the pressure in your engine bay is negative. If it is, then you have to come up with a scoop that will be able to get the air into the engine bay.
                          '93 LX Wagon (On the back burner)
                          '92 EX Wagon (Traded)
                          '93 EX Wagon (Current DD)

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by turboHLS30 View Post
                            It's plain and simple, you can't add a "scoop" until you know that the pressure in your engine bay is negative. If it is, then you have to come up with a scoop that will be able to get the air into the engine bay.
                            im not trying to bring air into the bay, it is fed RIGHT into the mouth of the filter.. and no im sorry, i was in a motorcycle accident about 3 weeks ago and im trying to finish recovering. i was hit by a truck at 65 mph. so as soon as im able to i will update this, sorry for the wait.

                            93 cb7 ex coupe
                            Granada Black Metallic

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Turbocutlass View Post
                              i was hit by a truck at 65 mph. so as soon as im able to i will update this, sorry for the wait.
                              Sorry to hear that but I'm glad to hear your recovering!
                              1993 Accord LX Coupe 5spd

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by ssondubs View Post
                                I am wanting to take advantage of all the wind drag at highway speeds for it to provide a natural supercharging effect to my CB7 . Just wanted to know if you guys have made one already and may provide any help and pictures please. Thanks!
                                i know what you mean and i made my own i would snap a pic and show you what i made its 3" cone pipe all the way to the 62mm tb sucks all the air from the outside and i dont have to worry about water. i will just show u just so you can get an idea its not the best but glad to help you get ideas .

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