K23 Swap

[deevergote]

I'm sure an adaptor could be made to fit the K23 to a manual transmission.

[CB7Nub]

Probably so don't see why not.
What goes into making one of those? Is it just some specially made piece of metal with that just allows the other tranny to mount up just by moving around the holes?

[91_CB7_Sedan]

Probably so don't see why not.
What goes into making one of those? Is it just some specially made piece of metal with that just allows the other tranny to mount up just by moving around the holes?

Pretty much, it usually has multiple holes drilled in it all the way around. 1 set of holes for the motor, the other set for the tranny...

[cb7_with_snail]

i would SO do this. if i had an extra $40,000 to throw away.

[Joey GT-R]

I think more than anything the reason why this swap won't be attempted in the near future is because for one how many people are totaling their precious RDXs? Without that happening we have no donor cars to get the drivetrain from. If anything a shop is just going to have to buy the motor brand new or re-manufactured. That right there will hit your wallet up almost 5 grand. Then there's the investment of trying to make it work for OBD1 cars like ours. Even people like InlinePro would be in the hole real quick.

So next time you see a guy/girl in their RDX, challenge em to take that next turn at 85+.....Surely if your 20 year old CB7 can do it so can it right? J/K.

[gloryaccordy]

I'll admit... I wanted to put an Odyssey V6 in a CB when I was a noob...




Being different is cool, but if you want performance, the best way to do it is to follow the easiest, most established (and supported) route.
Turbo... do it to the F22A.
Easy 200hp, H22.
N/A performance... H22A or F22A are sufficient for most.

More than that, it's just too much custom stuff. People like 2point6 and Bisimoto can do it and have a good reason to... because they own shops, and doing crazy swaps and super-high horsepower builds attracts business, and displays the extreme end of their abilities. For a hobbyist that just wants a fun car to drive... take the easy route. The V8 muscle guys have understood this for years.

You should make this post a sticky in every forum. Yes, even the Photog board

[CyborgGT]

Why? Because no one should attempt anything new simply because it's impractical? If that were the case, the Honda community wouldn't be where it is now with all the swaps people are doing if nobody thought outside of the box.

A V6 in an EG hatch? Come on, That thing's too tall! Think of the weight issues, our engines hang out over the front of the axle! Now look how common the J-swap has become for tuners across much of the Honda brand. It seems that depending on which company's mount kit you get, you get stuck with either poor ground clearance with the oil pan or you've gotta cut a hole in the hood (looks sick, but still "impractical").

Do it! To hell with the nay-sayers that are too scared to put real work into their cars!

[gloryaccordy]

Does the RDX have full VTEC? If not why not just turbocharge a run of the mill K24A1/4? I mean seriously, with the dearth of support for such a swap, you might as well start looking outside the Honda realm... maybe swap in the SR20DET? 6G72? SRT-4 2.4T?

I mean never mind the hardware... physically getting the motor in would be difficult but the electronics would be the real killer, with all the non-engine integrations & immobilizers. A motor from the same era will not have the same cleanness or efficiency, but it will be a hell of a lot easier...

The only value in this would be to say "i have a K23 swapped CB7!" Meanwhile someone w/a turbo H22 is just as fast as you or faster, and spent like 1/4 the money you did. Some swaps, like a J30 + 6spd, can be rationalized as there's at least some modularity with other Honda parts. But the K23 is kind of a lame duck.

[gloryaccordy]

Why? Because no one should attempt anything new simply because it's impractical? If that were the case, the Honda community wouldn't be where it is now with all the swaps people are doing if nobody thought outside of the box.

A V6 in an EG hatch? Come on, That thing's too tall! Think of the weight issues, our engines hang out over the front of the axle! Now look how common the J-swap has become for tuners across much of the Honda brand. It seems that depending on which company's mount kit you get, you get stuck with either poor ground clearance with the oil pan or you've gotta cut a hole in the hood (looks sick, but still "impractical").

Do it! To hell with the nay-sayers that are too scared to put real work into their cars!

A V6 swap into an EG IS too tall. It's really only a novelty swap and isn't something you could DD. K is better and getting cheap enough to be justifiable. But this? You can put "real work" into your car without spending 20K on a swap that wouldn't be much more powerful than a turbo H22. Not saying its impossible, but IMO it's better to leave that kind of work to entities like AZRacing, Hasport, Hondata etc....

[JDM_CB7_TX]

Ok I understand the originality part of it but why would you blow ridiculious amounts of cash on a swap that is just going to be one headache after another.

If you are going for originality be the first guy to shave half of your body and say I did it just to be different...

[deevergote]

A V6 swap into an EG IS too tall. It's really only a novelty swap and isn't something you could DD. K is better and getting cheap enough to be justifiable. But this? You can put "real work" into your car without spending 20K on a swap that wouldn't be much more powerful than a turbo H22. Not saying its impossible, but IMO it's better to leave that kind of work to entities like AZRacing, Hasport, Hondata etc....

I completely agree with that statement.

The shops want to do things like this to draw attention. Sure, it's unique. It will be great advertising, and bring in business. It makes sense there. But for the average tuner, what is it going to get them? A few oohs and aahs at the first meet they attend with it?

If one falls into your lap, and you have the necessary tools and knowhow to stuff it in your bay... then fine. Not a bad idea. Just like the guy that crammed an LSx into a WRX. He said it actually ended up being cheaper than rebuilding the WRX's blown EJ20.

[CyborgGT]

A V6 swap into an EG IS too tall. It's really only a novelty swap and isn't something you could DD.

... I would. Put a scoop over the hood hole, it'll be fine. FFs - even hatches, take a look at Europe's popular "hot hatch" segment - have V6s out the wazoo these days.

I know this isn't that practical and would be pretty difficult to do but I'm just wondering what do you guys think of this idea in a CB? It's the only out of the house turbo'ed motor from Honda that I know of and it would be pretty unique and costly.

Yes I do know there are better ways money spent if I wanted power I am just wondering what people think.

I think this swap is an awesome idea. Power isn't everything, sometimes your parts need soul... something interesting behind their origins.

That's why I brought this up, that's why I drive a CB not a EG, DC, BB6, etc.

Read that first one again. He knows it's difficult. Knows it's expensive. Knows there are better and easier ways to spend the money... if all he was interested in was power. It's this engine in particular that interests him. It's like almost like taking a Focus and tracking down a Cosworth engine to stick in. Yeah there are easier and cheaper ways of getting the same power, but... it's a Cossy! It's got the history of Ford's rally teams and "Fast Ford" RS road cars behind it. Or it can be related to a rich guy that goes out and buys the flashiest car he can wrap his wallet around just to show off ('cause let's be honest, how often do these people actually make use of their supercar's capabilities? And don't get me started on the types that let them rot in garages). Now compare that to an equal someone who opted for, say, a 1980 Renault 5 Turbo with a measly 158hp stock - and left it there. I like to consider myself a car enthusiast, and I could honestly say I'd find more enjoyment from owning that old, unreliable, underpowered French hatchback than a Murcielago, simply because it was made under homologation rules of rally racing and based on a tremendously successful race-spec model. In fact, I'd go for a new Mini for the same reasons, what with the old David-among-Goliaths and its BTCC outings and Paddy Hopkirk's legendary Monte Carlo Rally runs. My future NSX will have "R.I.P. Senna" across the top of the rear window. He not only helped with development of the original NSX's chassis, but was arguably the greatest F1 driver of all time.

Back on topic (sorry! ) this is a rare factory-turbo Honda engine. It doesn't sound like CB7Nub wants it necessarily for the originality, the fact that no one else has done it. It's the heritage and interest level of the engine that matters. To the real enthusiast, very often nothing compares. Then there are the people who are out there just for the power or "cool" looks to impress someone, to beat the guy in the other lane, and oftentimes (especially within the tuner community) they just don't understand things like this. Which is fine, your desires lay elsewhere and I don't dis you for it.

Yikes, that was a nice wall-o-text. I'm terribly sorry, I got a bit too into it.

IMO it's better to leave that kind of work to entities like AZRacing, Hasport, Hondata etc....

And that's exactly what I mean by everyone here being afraid to do any "real work" to their car. Bolting in some new parts (whether they be typical "bolt-ons" or upgrading engine innards) and having the ECU flashed isn't real work. Everyone here, and in the tuning community as a whole, is doing it. Getting different cars' systems to work together, fabbing up some custom mounts, figuring out the wiring to a swap that hasn't been done... that's real work. Not that wiring is difficult when schematics are so easily obtainable. From there it's like filling out a multiple-choice quiz . A lot are intimidated by it though.

[HappyGilmore]

I would like to see this done as well as a J37 AWD setup in a CB. I agree with thinking out of the box.

[owequitit]

That's right! The RDX now does come in FWD but they do still make SH-AWD for it.
So the RDX with FWD swapping may be easier. Some guy on another forum wanted to bolt up a K23 to a K20 tranny and it didn't fit so tranny swaps probably won't work. Since there is a FWD K23 tranny you could use that but it's 5AT.

It would be complicated but it's now it should be a lot easier since there is a FWD version.

He failed because he tried a K series tranny. Did you not see the part where I mentioned it was designed to bolt to a J series tranny? I would be willing to bet money that a J series 6MT would bolt right up, or nearly so.

[gloryaccordy]

And that's exactly what I mean by everyone here being afraid to do any "real work" to their car. Bolting in some new parts (whether they be typical "bolt-ons" or upgrading engine innards) and having the ECU flashed isn't real work. Everyone here, and in the tuning community as a whole, is doing it. Getting different cars' systems to work together, fabbing up some custom mounts, figuring out the wiring to a swap that hasn't been done... that's real work. Not that wiring is difficult when schematics are so easily obtainable. From there it's like filling out a multiple-choice quiz . A lot are intimidated by it though.

Please. A "rudimentary" successful H22 swap is good work. Troubleshooting fuel/spark/VTEC issues is good work. I think it's a little silly to downplay all the work people are doing because nobody wants to tackle this goofy swap. Seriously, someone could spend $20K to get this in a CB, and get walked on by a $5K turbo H22 setup. And for what? Scene "props"?

I am all for pushing boundaries, but it has to be within reason. There are like 2 K swapped CBs and 1 J swapped CB.... still a lot of headway to be made there. I'd much rather a J30A1 hooked up to a K24A4 MT than this swap.... much more readily available and not far off power wise