H Head/Block combo

[wed3k]

First of all, the A4, A1, and A6 cam are all MADE of the same material. It's not the cam shattering at 7500-8000 rpm you have to worry about, its the valve float and spinning rod bearings! YOU were the one claiming the A6 could rev to 7500 over the A1/A4. They all have the same rev capability, it's just that the A4/A1 quit making power sooner, due to the more mild cam.

Second, I'm sorry you wasted your money buying an A6 head for more flow...considering it's the same fucking head as an A1/A4.

I'm the one who has the damn facts straight, you are the one spouting false information. If d112crzy was here, he'd kick you in the face.

As a side note, HondaFan81 is revving his red project (or at least, has the capability to do so, easily) to 7500rpm. On a delta regrind. What's a delta regrind? Oh yeah, a stock cam with metal added and reshaped! Durr.

first!

[Vtechno]

i see what you mean........but this is a 90-93 accord site (f22A1,4,&6). so other than the thread title, you can't tell he talk'n about a H eng.

I figured id post the h set up on here because a lot of guys are running the h22. i apologize for the confusion, but the title clearly states "H head/block combo".

im not being a dick, but i thought itd be alright too post this thread.

doesnt matter anyway, you saw what i ordered. come income tax time, itll be built.

[10thcb7]

well f22a6's have windage trays and so do other H series and newer F's

[foamypirate]

F22B's also have them. Though, there is speculation as to why A6's actually have them. There is a post that Cisco started floating around discussing it.

[jhondayaaj]

20hp from a header?



?

I didn't know the f22a4 is 145hp compared to f22a1 125?

[accordaffair]

I don't want to post something I've posted before but I believe it's

A1-125/137
A4-130/142
A6-140/142

[preludeman92]

Here's my attempt to stop the argument that the f22a6 head is better than the f22a1 head...

Straight from honda
F22A6 (93 2dr se) cylinder head p/n 12100-PT3-A02 Retail Price $1424.40
F22A1 (93 2dr dx) cylinder head p/n 12100-PT3-A02 Retail Price $1424.40

conclusion: the actual head is identical. However, the cam and intake/exhaust manifolds are different, along with the computer. Upon looking a little further, the valve springs are different between the 2 motors though. The A6 motor uses PT5 springs and the A1 motor uses PT0,PT1, and PT7 springs. Interesting.

[deevergote]

THANK YOU preludeman92!

Holy crap is this thread way off course and filled with horribly inaccurate information!


The H22A1 and H22A4 heads are very similar. There are probably slight differences, but none to be concerned about (and they are probably, as with the F22 stuff preludeman92 mentioned, just cam and spring differences as well)

The A1 has a closed deck. Stronger. The A4 has an open deck. Weaker. Not sure why Honda went that route, aside from perhaps cost or cooling (though the A1 never had any cooling issues). The A4 also has larger crank journals (I don't know measurements offhand, but I know that's true). Both are in the 190-200hp range. There is NOT a 20hp difference. The H22A4 is not the Type S or Euro R, and the US never got a 220hp H22.

Blockguards cause cylinder warpage. If you want to strengthen the cylinder walls, go for a full resleeve.





Back to the F22 stuff that doesn't belong here... The F22A4 is nearly identical to the F22A1, it just has a tubular exhaust manifold (a true header, technically). The F22A4 runs the PT3 ECU, same as the F22A1. The PT6 is no significant help on the A1 or A4 without the corresponding A6 parts. The P12 is made for the Prelude A1, not sure what the internal differences are (preludeman92, any input from you there?). It supposedly has a more aggressive fuel map, but I'm sure there are other differences as well. It's a pretty significant increase for a factory tune...

[Akira_kj]

Here's my attempt to stop the argument that the f22a6 head is better than the f22a1 head...

Straight from honda
F22A6 (93 2dr se) cylinder head p/n 12100-PT3-A02 Retail Price $1424.40
F22A1 (93 2dr dx) cylinder head p/n 12100-PT3-A02 Retail Price $1424.40

Just because when you order the part from honda doesnt mean what was in the car orginaly was identical. Do you realy think they would continue to manufacture parts that are slightly different but work on all applications? Would you get a different spark plug from honda for each of there applications that use the same size because they came stock from different manufacturers?

Dodge does the same thing.. you can get a ignition coil from a 91 caravan or a jeep charokee that fits a 90 dakota... the orginals where the same shape even the motors where not in the same family but but the stock one out of the dakota preformed better... but when you buy a replacement from dodge you get the same part for all 3... the same output as the dakota.

[preludeman92]

I don't have the slightest clue what the actual difference between the P12 and PT3 are. Having run both on my completely stock accord and my modded prelude with an f22 in it, I can say the P12 will rev a little higher (maybe 250rpm more), typically nets slightly more MPGs (I don't know why, just my observation), has way better top end and some more low end power. The prelude f22a1 is identical in every way to the accord f22a1 though. I don't have any dyno numbers to compare but I'm running a p12 in my stock dx accord for a reason.

[preludeman92]

Just because when you order the part from honda doesnt mean what was in the car orginaly was identical. Do you realy think they would continue to manufacture parts that are slightly different but work on all applications? Would you get a different spark plug from honda for each of there applications that use the same size because they came stock from different manufacturers?

Acutally, honda will make/sell different part numbers of the same basic part. Gaskets are a great example. Oil pumps, valves, valve springs, and windshield washer nozels also come to mind.

The first example I can find... rear main seal on f22/h23/h22 block. Honda lists 3 of them. My buddy that sells honda parts for a living keeps all 3 in stock. There is no difference in dimensions or function, but honda has 3 manufacters for a reason. All 3 of them cost $15.42, but all 3 have different part numbers... Scratch that, they have 2 manufacters.
91214-PH1-004 (ARAI)
91214-PH3-751 (ARAI)
91214-PLE-003 (NOK)

Why honda does it, I don't know. It's like the debate about why honda included an oil baffel on the f22a6 but they didn't on the other f22's. Honda has their reasons for everthing, they just may not be clear to everyone else.

Look around, when honda has a reason to change something, they will and the new part will get a new part number. Identical parts will have the same number, even if they're made by different companies.