bottom end build :dry sleeves

[DKRM]

Im building my bottom end this spring and a I have chosen to go with bisi rods and 86mm pistons combo, I was going to get the block bored out to 86mm but I want be able to run 20psi without worrying about cracking a sleeve, so I started looking into darton wet and dry sleeves, and well im wondering will a darton flanged dry sleeve be capable of holding 20psi daily? or would the wet (mid) sleeve be the option here.

[toycar]

Im building my bottom end this spring and a I have chosen to go with bisi rods and 86mm pistons combo, I was going to get the block bored out to 86mm but I want be able to run 20psi without worrying about cracking a sleeve, so I started looking into darton wet and dry sleeves, and well im wondering will a darton flanged dry sleeve be capable of holding 20psi daily? or would the wet (mid) sleeve be the option here.

What fuel do you plan to run? and 20 psi is irrelevant without knowing which turbo you plan to run.

I am pushing 22-24 psi, logging 36lbs/min air with an mhi evo 3 16g turbo. Could probably get more out of it too, and I'm on stock sleeves and plan to stay that way.

[DKRM]

Im going to run a holset hy35 on 94 octane (91 when 94 is not avaliable) with water-meth.

[Joey GT-R]

I was talking to Darton today about this very issue, except related to a K24A block. 20 psi on most turbos is fine for the stock block. The dry and flanged sleeves add slightly more insurance but you're still relying on the aluminum of the block, and with too much power they too can fail. A full sleeve is the only 100% guarantee, with proper installation of course. I think you need to figure out your goals first. Unless you want to go beyond 450whp I'd say you're fine with the stock block. But anything beyond, just save for a few more months and send it off for the real deal.

Keep in mind that the ORIGINAL purpose of these sleeves were to replace damaged sleeves due to too much boost, spun bearings, etc. Somehow over time people got it into their heads that they were great for high horsepower builds. They are slightly stronger than stock, but not by much.

[DKRM]

My max would be 400whp and my machine shop (called today) said dry sleeves would have no problem handling 20psi daily

[Joey GT-R]

If that's all you want then go for it. But get the flanged ones, not the straight dry ones. They offer a bit better cooling flow and seal with the headgasket. Should only up your budget maybe 200 or so. When you're all done keep us posted on the reliability.

[toycar]

It's going to take more then 20 psi on that turbo to make 400whp, but it can do it. The hx35 would've been closer to 400@20psi but still prolly not quite there.

Are you set on the 400whp mark, or the 20psi? Something id like to point out, from experience with this turbo;

Your not going to see much boost on a dd sorta trip. When you do see boost, it will be scary in traffic, and generally speaking the car gets a little hard to use/control for a daily.

That's why I'm running a 16g on the cb I'm working on for my next daily. Too much turbo+daily driver+dumbass people you cannot control on the road=likely accident

Plus, the powerband doesn't really fair well with daily driving habits. You spend most of the time rolling around on n/a power.

Good luck though man, don't let me derail you, I'm just speaking from my experience. You may enjoy it, have different driving habits etc....

[DKRM]

I am not set on the 400whp mark, that is what I would like to build to max. Im running a 16g on my car now, but I blew a ring so Im rebuilding a spare block and didn't want to re shave off my front engine mount. I got the holset for 50 bucks freshly rebuilt from a buddy so thats why im choosing the holset route, If im not happy with it i could always play around with different turbos I have an actual dd car but Im hoping to be able to drive my cb as much as possible this summer, and joey-gtr the flanged sleeves are defiantly what I would go with.

[dbsharp]

Why not just leave your stock sleeves? they will handle that much power.

[DKRM]

will they handle the power for any amount of time? I have no problem leaving them, but I don't want to be worried if there gonna give out every time I push the car. It would be easier to do them now then later

[Whit3y]

even with stock sleeves ..... i am a noob to machine work for blocks and such but even if u take the block to the shop and they do there work to it the miles are still gonna be on the sleeves ?


i just think if i got a spare block with lets say 200k miles on it i would put new sleeves in .... like i said a noob to this

[Grumpys93]

Your not going to see much boost on a dd sorta trip. When you do see boost, it will be scary in traffic, and generally speaking the car gets a little hard to use/control for a daily.

That's why I'm running a 16g on the cb I'm working on for my next daily. Too much turbo+daily driver+dumbass people you cannot control on the road=likely accident

Plus, the powerband doesn't really fair well with daily driving habits. You spend most of the time rolling around on n/a power.

Having a bigger turbo isnt going change your chances of getting into an accident any more then a smaller one would. I ran an evo 3 big 16g for my first turbo ya it spooled quick but my sc60 that i am/was currently running started spooling almost at the same point. Never had an issue with either of them for DD. But generally you wouldnt boost in traffic. And you can choose when you want to boost. I thought the sc60 was a good powerband. But i didnt going driving around trying to stay in boost the whole time. Just my .02

[Joey GT-R]

even with stock sleeves ..... i am a noob to machine work for blocks and such but even if u take the block to the shop and they do there work to it the miles are still gonna be on the sleeves ?


i just think if i got a spare block with lets say 200k miles on it i would put new sleeves in .... like i said a noob to this

This makes no sense....are you merely speculating, or asking a question?

A block will always have the mileage it's traveled on it. It would be the owner's responsibility to rebuild the block with new seals, pumps, belts, etc. If you're going to be shooting for that high horsepower why skimp out on "the small stuff"? This will allow the block to better handle the added stresses of forced induction.

Whether someone want's to sleeve a 200k block or a 50k block is entirely their choice. All miles are not created equal. Depending on the daily use/abuse of the block determines its ability to hold up to the additional loads of a turbo. With 20 psi or less a stock block is generally fine. However, for added protection, sleeving is recommended when playing with that threshold.

[toycar]

Having a bigger turbo isnt going change your chances of getting into an accident any more then a smaller one would. I ran an evo 3 big 16g for my first turbo ya it spooled quick but my sc60 that i am/was currently running started spooling almost at the same point. Never had an issue with either of them for DD. But generally you wouldnt boost in traffic. And you can choose when you want to boost. I thought the sc60 was a good powerband. But i didnt going driving around trying to stay in boost the whole time. Just my .02

Thats sorta my point. During dd driving, you never get into the powerband. If you look st he compressor map on the holset, its not possible for a f22 with oem compression to make enough flow to power the turbo to peak potential. Meaning, it may feel nice but unless your reving to 7-8k rpms, your not moving enough air in the first place to use the turbo correctly. Basically, a dyno queen.

And if your 16g was spooling about the same as the sc60, then it was probably set up incorrectly. I'm building boost by 2200, with full boost (22-24psi) by 4300. Your never hitting peak efficiency with a turbo that large during a dd scenario.

So my point with a turbo that big, on a "dd" is that your still on n/a power most of the time. Why turbo your dd, if your not intending to use the turbo.

And the idea that you can be on the interstate and not be seeing boost is silly. Why even have a turbo setup on a dd if that's how its going to run?

And the other stuff, about it being scary;

Hitting boost, jumping from say 140whp to 350-400whp, under boost gets dangerous with any other cars on the road. Maybe its because I've been in an accident like a bazillion times, but I just don't think that much power is "safe" in a modified car on the street.

My 60-140 speed is about 5 seconds. To me, thats about as fast as I would ever want to be on the streets. I'm also considered a senior citizen around here in my ripe old age, so maybe I'd feel different if I was younger who knows.

[drummersteve7]

but I just don't think that much power is "safe" in a modified car on the street.

incorrect. it is def safe if handled correctly.
one thing people fail to realize is if you have the added hp you need the added stop power and
the ability to maneuver when needed, so suspension matters as well!

Your worried about safe, after being in a bazillion accidents? Time to trade the old DL in for a shwinn!