Going boosted, which motor to use..

[91kid]

So I'm wanting to do a boosted build and have been pricing doing it with a sleeved h22 as that seems to be the easiest to get parts for.

Ive been thinking i could save a bunch by starting with an f22 and still make similar power no?

My question is, I can only find one set of forged rods for an f22, is there something I'm missing or what?

I'm planning to BUILD the block

Golden eagle sleeves
Forged Rods
Forged pistons
Head work
Cams
Spring/retainers
Arp hardware

[DKRM]

f22 parts are definatly harder to come by than h22 parts, bisimoto make some of the best parts for both f22 and h22's. Bisimoto has a rod/piston combo for the f22 thats a killer price(probably cant be beat).
Also I think Scat make a rod that will work in the f22 block. I think if you are doing a full build either motor will make crazy amounts of power tuned properly. I would do a f22 personally.

[91kid]

what i hate about bisi, is they wont disclose any info on rod length etc, which makes me uncomfortable

i like the idea of an f22 that eats h22's also =)

[DKRM]

they used to.. I had a set that I sold a couple months back that i never got to use. Had a full spec sheet in the box with the rods and pistons.
Im the same way about beating up on h22's with an f22

[mndude07]

My ultimate turbo idea is to use the f20a sohc engine. It has the same great flowing head of the f22a1/4/6, and is sohc, so less rotating mass and weight of the engine. This engine has a 88mm stroke, then sleeve and bore to 88mm so you have a perfectly square engine. The rod/stroke ratio would be 1.65...that's better than the K20, and you get more displacement. Higher r/s ratio would help out a lot for a turbo engine because it will help reduce piston side loads.

8,000 rpms and a small turbo = very fun!

[evil_demon_01]

My question is, I can only find one set of forged rods for an f22, is there something I'm missing or what?

Where are you looking?
And what specifically makes you think you NEED forged rods, rather than well designed rods H or I beam rods?

Check here - http://www.raceeng.com/c-3461-connecting-rods.aspx

[91kid]

I want to be able to beat the crap out of this motor and not worry about anything,
I've looked at numerous sites ( all major rod manufacturers that I've heard of, many "speed" shop type websites)

Carrillo makes a set for a grand
Bisi sells h beams ( doesn't say weather or not there forged or not)


This car is being built to try and keep up with my buddies 385whp boosted eg

[10thAnnivCB7]

Look at NWAccord's setup. Or you can always look at boosted H22s on other chassis.

[Julio@Bisimoto]

Though I would chime in and share a bit of information reguarding the Bisimoto F22A/B piston with long rod combo, which I shared in the Bisimoto store here on CB7 as well.


"Bisimoto designed this package for the F22 community to be cost effective, with the highest of quality to support extreme cylinder pressures, whether you are building a force induction, nitrous or even rebuilding your factory engine for a bump in displacement, compression and reliability.

These Bisimoto custom 9:1c/r, 86mm bore piston kits can accommodate up to 3mm oversize valves and strategically lightened to provide optimal weight savings without compromising strength integrity. With CNC machined working surfaces, optimized crowns for efficient combustion and Diamond-turned ellipsoidal skirt profile.

Bisimoto custom forged steel rods are manufactured from the very best aircraft quality 4340 steel. Using Autocad 14 technology, the Bisimoto Spec. rods are lightweight without sacrifice of strength. Feature 3/8" diameter ARP bolts and have been tested to over 800+HP on a proper tune and supporting parts.

The rod length is propitiatory information to Bisimoto, however the length does range during time of manufacturing and will be partnered with a custom piston for proper height installation. All Bisimoto pistons will included specification sheet including all needed information for block machining and clearances for instillation.

For our very serious race enthusiast, Bisimoto can also design custom rods and pistons to your specifications as well.

For more information on custom services, kindly give us a call at 888-922-6686 or email sales@bisimoto.com."

[91kid]

Though I would chime in and share a bit of information reguarding the Bisimoto F22A/B piston with long rod combo, which I shared in the Bisimoto store here on CB7 as well.


"Bisimoto designed this package for the F22 community to be cost effective, with the highest of quality to support extreme cylinder pressures, whether you are building a force induction, nitrous or even rebuilding your factory engine for a bump in displacement, compression and reliability.

These Bisimoto custom 9:1c/r, 86mm bore piston kits can accommodate up to 3mm oversize valves and strategically lightened to provide optimal weight savings without compromising strength integrity. With CNC machined working surfaces, optimized crowns for efficient combustion and Diamond-turned ellipsoidal skirt profile.

Bisimoto custom forged steel rods are manufactured from the very best aircraft quality 4340 steel. Using Autocad 14 technology, the Bisimoto Spec. rods are lightweight without sacrifice of strength. Feature 3/8" diameter ARP bolts and have been tested to over 800+HP on a proper tune and supporting parts.

The rod length is propitiatory information to Bisimoto, however the length does range during time of manufacturing and will be partnered with a custom piston for proper height installation. All Bisimoto pistons will included specification sheet including all needed information for block machining and clearances for instillation.

For our very serious race enthusiast, Bisimoto can also design custom rods and pistons to your specifications as well.

For more information on custom services, kindly give us a call at 888-922-6686 or email sales@bisimoto.com."

Thanks for that info julio that's very good and helpful..

[deevergote]

A large variety of quality parts isn't really necessary... as long as there is ONE option that's worth buying (which puts the F22A very much in the running.)

The F22A is cheaper to acquire initially, and it's more common if you need a replacement (or replacement parts). Only one camshaft instead of two (which is cheaper when upgrading the cam, sprocket, etc...) Manifold options for the F22A are really just as good as those for the H22A.

Additionally, custom parts can be made for ANY engine with the proper specs... pistons, rods, manifolds, camshafts... so don't be afraid to do a little in-depth learning to remove the limitation of feeling forced to buy only "off the shelf" parts. The cost might be slightly higher, but you'll have the freedom to build exactly what you want.

With boost, any of the available engines for the CB7 can put down far more power than you could ever comfortably use in a street-driven CB7. Especially when properly built.


I love the H22A. I have one. But if I were to go boost, I'd be doing it to an F22A. IMO, the ONLY reason to boost an H22A is to have that extra "bling" factor under the hood.



Your plan to do a proper build is a good one. So few people really do it right these days, it seems. Everyone wants to do it fast and cheap, and it's putting more CB7s in the junkyard every year! With your plans, really any engine is an option.

[Julio@Bisimoto]

Thanks for that info julio that's very good and helpful..

Your welcome, I am here to help. If you have any further questions that I can be assistant off, please do not hesitate to ask. Best way to reach me would be either email at Julio@Bisimoto.com or at the facility at 888-922-6686 ext. 3.

[91kid]

A large variety of quality parts isn't really necessary... as long as there is ONE option that's worth buying (which puts the F22A very much in the running.)

The F22A is cheaper to acquire initially, and it's more common if you need a replacement (or replacement parts). Only one camshaft instead of two (which is cheaper when upgrading the cam, sprocket, etc...) Manifold options for the F22A are really just as good as those for the H22A.

Additionally, custom parts can be made for ANY engine with the proper specs... pistons, rods, manifolds, camshafts... so don't be afraid to do a little in-depth learning to remove the limitation of feeling forced to buy only "off the shelf" parts. The cost might be slightly higher, but you'll have the freedom to build exactly what you want.

With boost, any of the available engines for the CB7 can put down far more power than you could ever comfortably use in a street-driven CB7. Especially when properly built.


I love the H22A. I have one. But if I were to go boost, I'd be doing it to an F22A. IMO, the ONLY reason to boost an H22A is to have that extra "bling" factor under the hood.



Your plan to do a proper build is a good one. So few people really do it right these days, it seems. Everyone wants to do it fast and cheap, and it's putting more CB7s in the junkyard every year! With your plans, really any engine is an option.

For the exact reasons you stated is what led me to want to boost the f originally but the lack of reasonable rods made me lean to the h, but it looks like the Bisi setup should be right up my alley )

Now my question, would boring the block be worth it? Better stroke/bore ratio etc?
Block guard needed with sleeves?

[deevergote]

Stay away from any "block guard"... they're well known to warp cylinders. Darton's "mid sleeve" is a good option. I'm not sure what Golden Eagle has to offer, but I know they make good things as well. You do not want to deal with any sort of auxiliary cylinder bracing.

Boring the cylinders, increasing the stroke, modifying the ports, valves, and combustion chambers... all will help in some ways. You need to determine your goal, and focus solely on the parts that will get you there.
How much power do you want to make? What will this engine be used for? Where in the RPM range do you want to see the power?

Before planning what to do to the engine, you need to figure out exactly what you want it to do once it's built... then focus ONLY on the things that will get you there.

To be honest, if you were to build an F22A bottom end with forged internals to 100% stock specs, and run a bone stock head... then slap on a quality turbo setup of the appropriate size and tune it well... you could very likely produce more power than you'd be able to safely and effectively put down on the street.

[91kid]

Car will need to be weekend driver friendly, I would like to autocross so a low spool Rpm is a must, I'd also like to be able to hit the strip occasionally, my goal is to waste my buddies 380whp civic, so being that the accord is heavier probably in the mid 400'a as far as power, I'd like to rev past 6800 if possible, maybe 72-7500

With the sleeves will any block bracing be beneficial or necassary?