My sleeved and turbocharged accord

[AccordAnimal]

Dude, I don't mean to be a dick at all, but you gotta read the whole thread.

[Hanzino]

lol

[Laguna7]

Nice, gotta love the turbo!!!

[F22Turbo702]

Sufficating an engine is just wrong!!

Ok, I hate to sound like an ass here, but I have some serious issues with this engine... Now, i just want some straight and clear answers, no flames plz.

First off, I commend you on sticking with the F22, I wish everyone did, but I have a feeling that this engine won't be meeting it's potential due to unnecessary expenses and a lack of good planning.
Now for my questions...

1)The Manifold, after all of this money spent, why get a redrilled DSM manifold when you could have had a better one made, that flows a lot more and helps your turbo spool?
2) AEM EMS, why spend $1600 on something you could get for under $100
with Uberdata, not to mention not having a baseline and having to tune from scratch?
3)Why are you using a 60-1 compressor, do you really think that's going to spool at a reasonable enough rate for reliable street driving?
4) What the hell are you thinking using an internal wastegate if you plan on running 22psi of boost? Can you say BOOST SPIKE!? Where's the boost controller for that anywayz?
5) What about the head and throttle body? You should have the head ported and the tb enlarged, they aren't going to be able to flow that 900cfm that your turbo can, hence the reason you aren't going to be spoolin' up quick enough.
6) Hasn't anyone told you that overlap is the enemy of turbo motors, that 272 cam is grossly oversized, shoulda stuck with stock.
7) Why a 2.5" downpipe? Are you running a 3" exhaust at least? It would seem to me that notching the crossmember and reinforcing it then putting in a 3" downpipe would be a better solution than bottlenecking a motor with a lot of potential.

That's all the questions I have, I just don't want to see a good motor not perform to it's maximum potential due to over spending on things that don't make a difference and not doing what needs to be done to allow this motor to breath. Please people don't sufficate your turbo motors, murder is a criminal offense and will be punished as so. Let your turbo motor breathe and you will be well rewarded, but limit it's air supply and you'd might as well drive a Prius...

Hopefully this will help you rethink your investment and I hope that someone on here with some understanding of where I'm coming from can back me up on this one. Good planning and execution are the keys to a fast, reliable Honda.

Thanks for hearing me out, of course this is all just my humble (yet passionate) opinion...
-Kyle

[F22Turbo702]

Oh, my one other question is what kind of rod bearings are you running in those Crowers? I'm having troble figuring out which ones i should use on my build, thanx again. ^_^

-Kyle

[EastSideRider]

Damn, thats a hell of a motor

[MRX]

First off, I commend you on sticking with the F22, I wish everyone did, but I have a feeling that this engine won't be meeting it's potential due to unnecessary expenses and a lack of good planning.

Thats a bit harsh...this build has been going on for awhile so don't undermine his planning please.

1)The Manifold, after all of this money spent, why get a redrilled DSM manifold when you could have had a better one made, that flows a lot more and helps your turbo spool?

Seems to fit fine on the manifold which means its not big enough to hit the block or the radiator much. How do you know what his plans are? Alot of DSM guys use the stock mani and still make well over 400hp. Why can't he?

2) AEM EMS, why spend $1600 on something you could get for under $100
with Uberdata, not to mention not having a baseline and having to tune from scratch?

There are things he needs to control that a chipped ecu won't be able to handle, tuning is more precise and easier. Notice he has Nitrous too, uber isn't so developed to control a turbo and nitrous as accurately as the AEM EMS. The EMS has far more features that are better suited for his application...one being traction control. Besides he can use a rich civic dx/lx map like i did for a starting point

3)Why are you using a 60-1 compressor, do you really think that's going to spool at a reasonable enough rate for reliable street driving?

The turbo isn't THAT big. Maybe he wants a slower spooling turbo because he needs it to maintain top end power in high rpms, which is likely because of his valvetrain upgrades. What spools fast dies fast too. Ppl said the same thing about my turbo, and even more so about my choice in pipe diameter. They were all wrong. Besides we already have enough torque to get us around town bone stock. And what's reliability have to do with the turbo's ability to spool?

4) What the hell are you thinking using an internal wastegate if you plan on running 22psi of boost? Can you say BOOST SPIKE!? Where's the boost controller for that anywayz?

The AEM EMS has a build in electronic boost controller i believe. A ported 02 housing and large flapper would be just about as efficient as an external gate...if not more efficient.

5) What about the head and throttle body? You should have the head ported and the tb enlarged, they aren't going to be able to flow that 900cfm that your turbo can, hence the reason you aren't going to be spoolin' up quick enough.

I'll agree to that one but not the part about its lack of spooling up quick. I could swear the head is p&p'd tho, i could be wrong.

6) Hasn't anyone told you that overlap is the enemy of turbo motors, that 272 cam is grossly oversized, shoulda stuck with stock.

I posted a thread in this FI forum about a tuner who noticed a trend doing the complete opposite of what everybody said about overlap. Overlap turns out to be good for setups that don't have great exhaust scavenging skills as in log style manifolds and stock turbo manifolds. The thread includes dyno's and possible explanations for this phenomenon

7) Why a 2.5" downpipe? Are you running a 3" exhaust at least? It would seem to me that notching the crossmember and reinforcing it then putting in a 3" downpipe would be a better solution than bottlenecking a motor with a lot of potential.

I agree somewhat but have you ever routed a 3" dp down there? Its not a piece of cake lol. Maybe he doesn't want to cut the crossmember. I know i didn't want to interfere with its structural integrity at all.

That's all the questions I have, I just don't want to see a good motor not perform to it's maximum potential due to over spending on things that don't make a difference and not doing what needs to be done to allow this motor to breath.

I believe he spent the money where it counted...reinforcing the block, great turbo, and superior engine management.

With that said,
fast93accord... been watchin you for awhile on HS. Best of luck in proving the F is worth it to the naysayers. (thats not directed at you wiccan)

Edit: Upon further research the head is p&p'd and he has the h23 tb and plenum which probably means he p&p'd those too. The AEM EMS does have a boost controller in it like i thought and the ex. manifold is p&p'd also. He's good to go...but you'll definately need some suspension work.

[Fearit22]

http://vids.torquenstein.net/imv/ShepherdRacing.wmv

Check that video out. Right at the 2 minute mark it shows a pic of something on Shep's car that looks very similar to a dsm manifold... If he made it into the 8's with something like that then they must be alright.

So you are saying that if I'm going to use a dsm manifold that I should keep my Gude cam in instead of buying a cam built by Delta for a turbo application since it has more overlap?

[phatdoughnut]

http://vids.torquenstein.net/imv/ShepherdRacing.wmv

Check that video out. Right at the 2 minute mark it shows a pic of something on Shep's car that looks very similar to a dsm manifold... If he made it into the 8's with something like that then they must be alright.

So you are saying that if I'm going to use a dsm manifold that I should keep my Gude cam in instead of buying a cam built by Delta for a turbo application since it has more overlap?

he sais hks manifold.. i dont think he quite hit 8s on the dsm mani...

[MRX]

So you are saying that if I'm going to use a dsm manifold that I should keep my Gude cam in instead of buying a cam built by Delta for a turbo application since it has more overlap?

found the link
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=16806

Its dependent on each setup really. Fast said he'd been running the 272 on his previous turbo f22 before the turbo blew. He said it spooled faster and pulled hard up to like 6800rpms i believe but had a lopey idle obviously. Theres really only one why to find out which is better for your application right?

[Fearit22]

he sais hks manifold.. i dont think he quite hit 8s on the dsm mani...

Read my post a little better next time. I said it looks similar as in the design of it. It's not like he has a ram horn style manifold or something like that.

[Fearit22]

found the link
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=16806

Its dependent on each setup really. Fast said he'd been running the 272 on his previous turbo f22 before the turbo blew. He said it spooled faster and pulled hard up to like 6800rpms i believe but had a lopey idle obviously. Theres really only one why to find out which is better for your application right?

I think I will probably just get rid of the Gude cam. The only other person I know of that had it and boosted was theone. His engine blew pretty quick too so I'll just pass on that experiment. Before I switch it out though I might do a dyno with it in then put the other cam in and dyno again. I wouldn't really feel comfortable leaving it in for a long time though....

[phatdoughnut]

yes, it does show a picture with a "oem" style one, which i take it an older pic, cause right after he sais hks manifold, and it shows a nice shiny manifold like some of the peps on here are experimenting with from dsms...

[Fearit22]

Yeah, the new one he shows at the end is for his new setup he talks about though. I was considering getting one of those "shiny ones" lol. I found out that almost all of them put the turbo in the stock spot so it should still easily fit in our cars. I probably will in the future just to save money, but for now I'll settle with what I have.

[MRX]

I think I will probably just get rid of the Gude cam. The only other person I know of that had it and boosted was theone. His engine blew pretty quick too so I'll just pass on that experiment. Before I switch it out though I might do a dyno with it in then put the other cam in and dyno again. I wouldn't really feel comfortable leaving it in for a long time though....

theo also went to R33's map and got off of the one i'd set for him. Neither of them remembered about theo's cam and they didn't compensate for it. By the time we were gonna send him a new map it was too late. Cams don't blow engines ya know. There was more to it tho, remember that theo had been running on nitrous for a long time also and had plenty of miles on the block. No matter the tuning...when its time, its time ya know?