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How much boost?

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    #1

    How much boost?

    I have an F22A1 with stock internals, using a 1G DSM Manifold, 1G DSM 14B Turbo, DSM 450cc injectors, and a chipped ECU w/ Uberdata. Now I have the ECU setup a little rich at full boost (right now only 9-10psi) if I'm not mistaken I think it's actually running like 10 something on the wideband. Anyways, I want to up the boost just a LITTLE bit by just getting something as simple as a manual boost controller. Does anybody have any suggestions of what the max psi I will be able to run with my setup. I really only want to increase it to maybe 12 or 13psi. I'm sure it will handle it just fine, but I want a second opinion on this right now cause the way it sits now, it runs just fine, very reliable, and there isn't anything wrong with it at the moment. If I do go off increasing the boost, who knows what will happen.
    Hondas don't leak oil... they just mark their territory.
    Tags: None
    #2
    I hate threads with this title...I thought you had a ricer question.

    Anyhow, to counteract richness, purchase a FPR. Adjust your pressure. Problem solved. Or cam gears, BUT thats not for beginners. You need some serious experience when it comes to tuning cam timing. For Sohc guys, you only can tune your timing so much since intake and exhaust lobes are on the same shaft.

    If you must increase your boost, well you will need a 3 bar map sensor. If you are inclined to research, I always figured a map sensor from a turbo car can work just fine. However, I do not know which turbo car to take it from. The MBC's are ok, however you need to monitor it closely. Do not buy those used either. And I think the F22 will handle it fine. As long as you stay on top of things.

    If its running rich tho, my suggestion is really a FPR. You may get even more power when you correct the rich condition.
    Last edited by KillerCam282; 12-13-2005, 07:12 PM.

    Comment

      #3
      Thanks for the opinion. But do you think that if I increase the boost just by like 2 or 3 pounds, shouldnt it lean itself out some, I mean I am going to be pushing that much more air into it, and the map I have on my ECU right now is only tuned to read up to 11.something pounds. So it shouldn't read the extra one or two pounds and wouldn't compensate for the fuel, right? Just a thought going through my head that I think might work. I can always re-tune it, i'm doing it myself anyway, if it gets too lean. I'm just wondering if the motor itself on stock internals can handle 12 pounds with no problem.
      Hondas don't leak oil... they just mark their territory.

      Comment

        #4
        The internals should be able to take 12 psi, but for daily driving I wouldn't go above 10 until you get new pistons.

        Comment

          #5
          its not about how much psi its about how much that stock worn about to go block can take before it takes a shit its jsut a matter of time of how long you take care of it and watch fo rthe warning signs

          Comment

            #6
            Whats up willie??? its about time you posted in here!!

            Where do you tune your car at? give me a call when you are because I need to start learning... that thing is going to be a beast with 12 psi!!!

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Funnel77
              The internals should be able to take 12 psi, but for daily driving I wouldn't go above 10 until you get new pistons.
              why do you say this? Its not bad advice, but I would love to hear the reasoning. Ive seen (on this site) a car that runs 14psi daily. you can blow a motor up on 6psi just as easily as you can on 20. it all depends on your tune.

              anyways, back to the topic . . . I dont think 2 or 3 psi will matter as much, since your running so rich. you might want to look at your dyno sheet to make sure your not leaning out anywhere tho.
              -Mark-
              CB7
              CD5


              And if i could swim I'd swim out to you in the ocean
              Swim out to where you were floating in the dark.

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by boostn91lx
                Thanks for the opinion. But do you think that if I increase the boost just by like 2 or 3 pounds, shouldnt it lean itself out some, I mean I am going to be pushing that much more air into it, and the map I have on my ECU right now is only tuned to read up to 11.something pounds. So it shouldn't read the extra one or two pounds and wouldn't compensate for the fuel, right? Just a thought going through my head that I think might work. I can always re-tune it, i'm doing it myself anyway, if it gets too lean. I'm just wondering if the motor itself on stock internals can handle 12 pounds with no problem.
                Ecu will adjust and throw in more fuel. Mechanical tuning is best in your situation.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Alright guys well I'm picking up and installing my boost controller tonight, at first I'm just going to take up it up easily, probably 1 psi at a time, I'm pretty confident that my motor WILL be able to handle it, it runs like a champ. I'll let you guys know later on tonight or tomorrow. Appreciate the knowledge, the best of CB7tuner!!
                  Hondas don't leak oil... they just mark their territory.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by AcclipseH23
                    I hate threads with this title...I thought you had a ricer question.

                    Anyhow, to counteract richness, purchase a FPR. Adjust your pressure. Problem solved. Or cam gears, BUT thats not for beginners. You need some serious experience when it comes to tuning cam timing. For Sohc guys, you only can tune your timing so much since intake and exhaust lobes are on the same shaft.

                    If you must increase your boost, well you will need a 3 bar map sensor. If you are inclined to research, I always figured a map sensor from a turbo car can work just fine. However, I do not know which turbo car to take it from. The MBC's are ok, however you need to monitor it closely. Do not buy those used either. And I think the F22 will handle it fine. As long as you stay on top of things.

                    If its running rich tho, my suggestion is really a FPR. You may get even more power when you correct the rich condition.

                    all you need is an afc!! a 3 bar map sensor is totally unessassary for you setup and you should just leave your cam timing alone if your gonna mess with anything it should be your fuel trim and your ignition timing leave everything else alone. your fuel pressure regulator is fine! the reason your running rich is because of bad fuel tuning not any other parameters.

                    keep it simple- keep it powerfull!

                    My Wiretuck/ Insane engine bay
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                    11.86@120mph T66 turbo 612hp F22A
                    DIVULGE MOTORSPORTS
                    People can hate all they want, my f22 is faster than yours.
                    I have literally been on this site for 10 years, I know what i am talking about!
                    John 10:18 "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. "

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by turbo90accord
                      all you need is an afc!! a 3 bar map sensor is totally unessassary for you setup and you should just leave your cam timing alone if your gonna mess with anything it should be your fuel trim and your ignition timing leave everything else alone. your fuel pressure regulator is fine! the reason your running rich is because of bad fuel tuning not any other parameters.

                      keep it simple- keep it powerfull!
                      Optimum performace and HACK have nothing in common. Usually you use an AFC when nothing else is available. With opitons like Chipped ECUs available for those on a budget...why would you? The absolute best thing for him to do is get a new map. However, if its too rich, cut fuel presure down slightly. There are plenty of things available to help fine tune your setup like Cam gears and FPRs. A HACK is not one of them. Any kind of condition the ECU is unaware of hurts your overall performance which is essentially what the AFC HACK is. Save that for people with Nissans or Toyotas, who do not have any other affordable options.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Willy, if its running too rich just simply adjust it on uberdata as AcclipseH23 said. An FPR is definately an option but it'd be much easier just to reburn a chip.

                        As for turning up the boost...don't. I look at it this way, there are VERY few ppl that have been able to run t-25's and 14b's for more than a couple of weeks without blowing an engine. AccordR33 did it because he really never drove the car nor did he drive it hard. Those little dsm turbo's you're using produce ALOT of heat at the same boost level as the guys that run t3/t04's. That abundance of heat causes the higher cylinder pressures resulting in blown ringlands. The dsm's can take it because they were built for it, the f22 can't. You're already testing the block by running 10psi with that turbo. If you want more power then get a bigger turbo.

                        FYI: Our ecu's are only made to read what the stock Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor can read which is 10.8psi. If you go above that it will either throw a shitfit or it'll just use the 11psi fuel curve no matter how high you boost it.

                        Moates.net has like a 2bar map sensor thats only like $20
                        Knowledge is power...in EVERY sense of the word

                        FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" #12

                        Comment

                          #13
                          ^^^Best advice yet. I never new about the moates. I have a 3 bar already so...too late.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            You should get a turbo cam rather than up the boost...


                            Originally posted by lordoja
                            im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by gloryaccordy
                              You should get a turbo cam rather than up the boost...
                              That works too. I had that when I was using my modded 14b. Frees up wite a few ponies, adds some torque too.

                              Comment

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