News from Hasport on K20 -> CB7

[ACC0RD22]

so yeah, back to MY question...what were you trying to "prove"??

Im not trying to prove anything. im just pointing the positives out that the other side has. I have no intention of swapping K-series, in fact, Im more intent on a turbo F. Im just arguing the other side. hence the playing the devils advocate line.

[ACC0RD22]

H22:
motor: 750-1500(depending on condition, and this is tranny, ecu, wiring harness)
labor: 500-1200 depending out whether u do it yourself or a shop
aftermarket support: 2000-4000 from turbo to NA and what numbers you want
age: this is basically due to the h is more older than the other but still has support, and a hell of it

H:
motor-750 jdm
NA: high comp piston(750), rods(500) port n polish(500), valvetrain upgrade(450), polish crank or knife-edge(not sure of this one but guess about 1000), ITB(400)= this should net you anywhere to about 250-300whp(input here, havent done NA setups too much but google's a lifesaver)= so in all this should come to 4350 with 650 for some spray or whatever else i missed

Im having a problem with some of your prices. specifically the H-series motor price. are you really telling me that you can get a JDM H22a for 750 dollars? and if so, could you point me in that direction? because I am intrigued.

[m-tec93accord]

whore urself on some downtown street, j/k

i already know my researching sucks, dont rub it in , but i shoulda gave a range on it as well, but it was just to point out the benefits as far as performance to the h to k, new age to old, the IN versus out OUT

u could ask why would place a gsr motor in a civic, when the b16 are as potent(or so i've heard), basically it boils down to originality and HEY I GOTTA ANOTHER KINDA OF VTEC MOTOR SO I CAN AUTOMATICALLY BEAT UR NON VTEC SHIT

[defjamon22z]

Im having a problem with some of your prices. specifically the H-series motor price. are you really telling me that you can get a JDM H22a for 750 dollars? and if so, could you point me in that direction? because I am intrigued.

750 yeah without transmission and high miles i'll believe that. but with transmission and 35k miles then it' stolen. fuck that. lol

[defjamon22z]

!

well.. fuk it then. stick with the h22a. some stuff i want i dun wanna pay too much for it. so the cheapest way to go is h22a than k series. got it. get my h22a this month fa sho! who's with me!?

[HondaB18]

Peak power is not everything.

The drivability of the K series and H or F series is completely different. The K series is more refined and is the new age. It has or will have more potential. The market is more vast compared to the aging H/F series where its slimming down.

Sure the F/H series can get the job done but it'll be a different feel. A car with 300hp will feel different then another car with similar chassis with 300hp. Very similar to how a turbo 300hp engine will differ from a NA 300hp engine.

If it was me I would choose the K series not for its originality but because of its future potential. Cost is a bit on the high side but thats because its still fairly new to the market. How much was the H series a few years after its release?

[Kurobei]

Peak power is not everything.

The drivability of the K series and H or F series is completely different. The K series is more refined and is the new age. It has or will have more potential. The market is more vast compared to the aging H/F series where its slimming down.

Sure the F/H series can get the job done but it'll be a different feel. A car with 300hp will feel different then another car with similar chassis with 300hp. Very similar to how a turbo 300hp engine will differ from a NA 300hp engine.

If it was me I would choose the K series not for its originality but because of its future potential. Cost is a bit on the high side but thats because its still fairly new to the market. How much was the H series a few years after its release?

^ Exactly.... I remember when everyone was trying to hop on the B-series bandwagon. Motor mounts themselves were up there in price and + engine dealers found a new market for the engines and started bumping up the prices. I remember seeing K-series swaps like the CRV K24s for under $1000 (no joke) simply because there were no swap kits out there and they were just piling up. Now that there is a market for them.... now they rose up significantly in price. They are sought for their heavy displacement which makes a nice "LS-v-tec" Like frankenstein motor.

[owequitit]

Both analysis here seem a little flawed.

1) 300WHP is not that easy out of an H22. And it isn't cheap, but it is possible.

2) Closer to 300WHP is possible from a K series (K20 especially). Bolt ons, an ECU reflash and IPS street cams can yield right around 250WHP.

The better K heads flow so well in stock form that a port and polish usually isn't a consideration until AFTER 300WHP.

The H22 head flows nearly as well, but I theorize that it suffers from intake restriction.

3) A K24 swap theoretically offers more low end torque, but it does it at the expense of high rpm revs. The stroke is long, and really high revs do unkind things to the rod bearings.

The rod bearings are quite a bit smaller than the H's, so more revs are possible, but probably not without building it if you are serious about reliability.

4) The H is bolt in affair. Not a lot of labor, not a lot of exotic accessories required to make it work. Remember, that the more complex the installation, the more opportunity for problems. Not saying it will happen, just saying the odds are increased.

5) What happens if you want accessories with your swap? It just got a whole lot more complex and expensive didn't it? Now we are into custom A/C lines wiring, PS hoses etc etc. I live in AZ. A/C isn't an option, it is a requirement.

6) It is inconsequential to talk about old H and K series prices, or future ones. The cost of the swap is now, therefore, only current market rates matter. If you are looking at a K series anytime in the future, you are already at several thousand for one worth having.

I have seen several perfectly legal, and good condition H22's go for $500 or so. They are coming down in price.

Even if you spend $2000, for a complete H motors swap with LSD, you are still about $2,000 ahead of just the K swap. Then you add all the stuff needed to swap it, and you are even higher.

I am sorry, but for $2k I can fairly easily have an H22 north of 230-240 WHP for $2,000 and you are just getting yours running...then for each additional $ you spend on increasing power on your K, I can spend the same amount on the H. Keep in mind that I started at 230 or so when you were at 170, so you already have a 50HP-60WHP deficit to catch up on. The K doesn't respond that much better to mods, and everything is more expensive.

And god forbid I took part of that $2K and spent it on Mahle forged pistons to drop the compression without having to resleeve, forged rods, and machining...now you are really at a disadvantage, because I am pretty much as boost ready as you are. Or if I put Nitrous on for $600...

7)IMO the K series is a spectacular engine. I do think it is better in many ways than the H, but in my mind, it doesn't make sense to spend the money swapping it into a chassis it wasn't intended for. Maybe some day down the road, but for the cost today or in the near future, it isn't worth it for the difficulty.

So pretty much, yes, you would be doing to be different.

This is simply because the H22 is also a hell of an engine, and with it bolting right in, being cheaper, and easier, you can have a large head start on a K series, before it is even up and running. Make no mistake either. The H series is right next to the B series in aftermarket support. The K is getting better, but it still can't touch the B for sheer variety.

And H22 outputs are still climbing. They aren't getting worse by the day, they are getting better and better, even at a rate similar to the K series in some instances.

Not to mention all of the potential headaches you are opening yourself for with the complexities of the K swap. Hasport does a good job of eliminating a lot of them, but I have seen issues with their stuff in the past that just shouldn't have existed in my mind.

That doens't even take into consideration things like accessories etc...

If I wanted a stripped out no feature car, I would go get a Civic Hatchback. They are lighter, and will always be faster with the same amount of HP, so a stripped out CB7 makes no sense to me.

On a dollar for dollar basis, the K series still loses. Especially when you factor in everything, including labor, parts etc, the H swap comes up several grand cheaper, is well documented, and is a bolt in affair.

That is assuming I can't find an H for less than what it has been selling at Hmotors for during the last several years. Which I can.

[Accord R33]

on the same note Scott, you could apply the same theory to a boosted F22 vs. H22. i used to use the argument all the time. The biggest counter argument of course, was always reliability.

[foamypirate]

Bravo Owequitit.

[owequitit]

on the same note Scott, you could apply the same theory to a boosted F22 vs. H22. i used to use the argument all the time. The biggest counter argument of course, was always reliability.

Yes, you absolutely can. Especially, for what you can do homebrew style for 1,000-1,500 bucks.

You can realistically remove the issue of reliability and still come in at or less than what it would cost to purchase and swap an H22 if you built the bottom end on the F.

I found my H for $500 which shot that possibility all to hell, and I am more of a screaming revs guy anyway.

I still have most of the turbo stuff sitting in my garage, as well as a healthy F22 that is soon to be retired. I am thinking an EG CX hatch would be a fun little project once I get the Accord swapped...

A boosted SOHC or DOHC F22 would be an absolute streetable monster in one of those.

Hell my old one with a bolt on D16 non-VTEC is running mid 15's at the moment...

The purpose of my post wasn't to say the K series doesn't have any potential, or shouldn't be done, because quite frankly, I don't care. To each his own.

It was simply to illustrate that you can pay $3,000 for 165 WHP on average, or you can pay $5,000 or more for 170WHP on average.

To me, the choice is obvious, especially considering that the H is so much easier, and has more torque at lower RPMs.

[BIEN_DIESEL]

wish i didnt spend 16k bucks on my jdm h22a motor, building it to the max and boosting it almost 7 yeras ago

[MikeW]

as much as i'd love to be one of the first with a K20 swapped cb, i don't see myself dishing out the $4,000.

- minoreparations
Im with ya on that. I think that really says it all right there....

To me, the choice is obvious, especially considering that the H is so much easier, and has more torque at lower RPMs.

- owequitit
God i love this guy! Scott i swear...im gonna do everything i can to meet you one day lol. Long winded but always at a point. You discuss all options and find the better end of the deal and argument. x2..Bravo, once again bro.

All in all...i too would much rather just put forth 3K and have a nicely done h22 equipped CB. Yeah for another 2 or 3K i could have the K series...but im just that way.

[defjamon22z]

i just thought of sumthing.. if u could afford to buy the K series engine... then u could afford to put down a down payment on the whole car and pay payment have low miles brand new body paint seat, rug, a.c everything. why dont ya buy the car instead of just the engine? for custom?

[gloryaccordy]

i just thought of sumthing.. if u could afford to buy the K series engine... then u could afford to put down a down payment on the whole car and pay payment have low miles brand new body paint seat, rug, a.c everything. why dont ya buy the car instead of just the engine? for custom?

The "WOW" factor...

If you're building a car to drag, like really going balls to the wall with everything, the H is not much less capable than the K. If you're driving it in the street, even with the K's added potential the cost is just not justifiable. You can get an H22 Type-S motor with JUN III cams and a top of the line header for less than a K20A Type-R motor and tranny...and if you're talking about actually getting the motor into a CB, with axles and electronics you can have a hell of an H...