New EPA proposal to prohibit conversion of road cars to race cars

[cb9love]

wingnuts beware

Not much is without any environmental negative impact.

Including electric motors and battery cells.

More smog while it seems pretty bad would actually help cool the earth.

Most negative effects of ethanol would be offset by the extra plants that are needed to produce the the extra fuel.

Pumping oil out of the ground is removing the tectonic plate lube thereby causing more earthquakes.

Of course if you want a ice age simply cover the earth in solar panels thereby trapping the sun's energy and stopping it from warming the earth.

Don't like that use windmills, but that will wipe out the migratory birds and the bats.



there is no one right answer.

the only real answer is population reduction then population replacement.
Meaning your family can have only one child. but your child may have two.
(my family has already done this voluntarily)

It's not what we do that hurts the environment, it's the sheer number of us on the planet.

I can be twice as wingnut as the EPA.

[sonikaccord]

Agreed. Everything we do requires some type of fuel/energy or resources, unless you are one of those overunity guys and know how to make perpetual motion.

You bring up a good point. I can predict that the entire tuner community makes up less than one percent of the polluting vehicles on the road, but the EPA can make a bunch of noise about it and convince the regular people that it's a bad thing to drive a modified car. Fine, let's talk about how much material and energy it takes to make one prius since they are supposed to be the greener than thou car. (I may actually research that one)

I believe China already has a law that limits the amount of children a family can have, but if you bring something up like that here in the states then all hell will break loose.

[oni_cb7]

Or Let's do a real experiment...with measurements. Shouldn't be too difficult. Simulations are great and all but seriously how hard is a sniffer comparison between two like model vehicles?

That was from 2007... quick google search. In the 9 years since that article has been written, there has been numerous measurements and real experiments. You just have to go look for the information.

There is a ton of information regarding the lack of benefits of using e85.

As mentioned, please do research.

[deevergote]

I'm not sure why we're talking about alternative fuels... this has nothing to do with E85 or electric vehicles.
If the EPA's proposal turns into a law as it stands, we won't be able to modify our vehciles... period. Doesn't matter if they're gasoline, hybrid, diesel, E85, or electric. If it's a road car, it will be illegal to perform any modifications to it that could be deemed "converting it into a race car"... which is so vague and broad that it could potentially cover ANY modifications whatsoever. Right now, the focus is emissions... because EPA... but that doesn't mean we couldn't potentially see new federal laws outlawing ALL modifications... suspension, body kits, spoilers, engine modifications, exhausts, etc... Furthermore, it may result in the ban of the sale of such products, meaning we won't even have parts to purchase should we desire to break the law!

[cb9love]

I'm not sure why we're talking about alternative fuels... this has nothing to do with E85 or electric vehicles.
If the EPA's proposal turns into a law as it stands, we won't be able to modify our vehciles... period. Doesn't matter if they're gasoline, hybrid, diesel, E85, or electric. If it's a road car, it will be illegal to perform any modifications to it that could be deemed "converting it into a race car"... which is so vague and broad that it could potentially cover ANY modifications whatsoever. Right now, the focus is emissions... because EPA... but that doesn't mean we couldn't potentially see new federal laws outlawing ALL modifications... suspension, body kits, spoilers, engine modifications, exhausts, etc... Furthermore, it may result in the ban of the sale of such products, meaning we won't even have parts to purchase should we desire to break the law!

Sorry to pull it off topic, i was only trying to come up with solutions for modified cars. i wasn't trying to suggest everything go e85. if emissions is the EPA's real concern then this seemed like a good solution. If tailpipe emissions is what they are trying to stop.

[deevergote]

I have a feeling it goes beyond simple emissions... it's just that emissions are the EPA's largest concern. Well, sort of. Resorting to E85 would cause other environmental concerns (even if E85 actually is cleaner.) Electric cars would introduce waste issues from battery production and disposal, not to mention the added draw on the power grid (which will require upgrades, as well as increased pollution that comes from the production of electricity.)

Still, this isn't the EPA asking for alternatives. This is the EPA calling for an outright ban on the conversion of road cars into race cars. Period. Doesn't matter what powers it. If it's a legitimate road-going car, they want to ban the use of any parts that could be considered "race parts".
And, as we know... people who aren't involved in the automotive enthusiast scene can consider the damnedest things "race parts". Maybe this will be a good thing... perhaps stick-on chrome vents and stuff will be outlawed!

[cb9love]

By all rights, If cars off the showroom are performing better than the average person can drive them, then it will no problem for you to put better tires on your CTSV and drive the piss out of it on a track.
No real concern for a average driving enthusiast if they can afford to buy a performance car from the factory. You still can live out your race dreams.

[deevergote]

But will you be able to take your road car on a track? When it's on the track, it's a race car.

[cb9love]

I don't believe that automatically makes your car a race car, It means you're racing your road car. That is what the high performance driving experience is all about. The friday night street fights at the drag strip are full of factory cars racing down the track. They are generally put in a different class than the drag cars. There are jerks like me running their modified cars against the factory cars. (not that it helps my slow ass)

[deevergote]

Yes... but this isn't based on our interpretation, or how race tracks classify us.
It's entirely possible that the EPA, or the lawmakers they are petitioning, could ban the racing of all cars intended for road use.

[cb9love]

That would cause this to happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXj_3wPxpsg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMP1lme4M7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6MGMhRm0EI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVNzr0rGhbc
I hope that is not what that want us to do




yeah i do
the harder the laws the harder the criminals.

[sonikaccord]

The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled "Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2."

I would imagine if that proposal was under this regulation, that they would stick with emission-modifying components...or even engine modifications entirely. The "Fuel Efficiency Standards" is the one we should be worried about. The EPA could literally say anything under this topic.

Found the article

EPA is also proposing two minor amendments related to highway motorcycles. First, we
are proposing to correct an error related to the small-volume provisions for highway
motorcycles. The regulation includes an inadvertent reference to a small-volume threshold based
on an annual volume of 3,000 motorcycles produced in the United States. As written, this would
not consider any foreign motorcycle production for importation into the United States. This
error is corrected by simply revising the text to refer to an annual production volume of
motorcycles produced “for” the United States. This would properly reflect small-volume
production as it relates to compliance with EPA standards. Second, we are proposing to clarify
the language describing how to manage the precision of emission results, both for measured
values and for calculating values when applying a deterioration factor. This involves a new
reference to the rounding procedures in 40 CFR part 1065 to replace the references to outdated
ASTM procedures. EPA is proposing in 40 CFR 1037.601(a)(3) to clarify that the Clean Air Act
does not allow any person to disable, remove, or render inoperative (i.e., tamper with) emission
controls on a certified motor vehicle for purposes of competition. An existing provision in 40
CFR 1068.235 provides an exemption for nonroad engines converted for competition use. This
provision reflects the explicit exclusion of engines used solely for competition from the CAA
Page 863 of 1329
This document is a prepublication version, signed by the Secretary of Transportation, Anthony
R. Foxx, and the EPA Administrator, Gina McCarthy, on June 19, 2015. We have taken steps to
ensure the accuracy of this version, but it is not the official version.
definition of “nonroad engine”. The proposed amendment clarifies that this part 1068 exemption
does not apply for motor vehicles.

[deevergote]

The fuel efficiency standards thing is definitely a scary concept. That could even prohibit the use of wider or stickier tires!

[af_1132]

I found the link to the petition against this proposed regulation on gospeedway forums. Please sign this petition if you have a minute. We have already reached the goal of 100,000 signatures, but 20 or 100 or 1,000 more can't hurt our cause.

Here is the link.

[Raf99]

I can see what they want to accomplish, but I can't see why any man would vote for such a thing. Do I agree with street racing, no. Do I understand why guys do it, hell ya!

But there would have to be a middle man here if this was enforced. This is to say that somewhere they would still have to allow street cars to use drag strips or we'd just see more illegal setups happening.

Definitely a stupid proposal though. You're 93 accord cannot be "tuned" to be a race car, sorry please take off that racing header. But this 2016 707HP Dodge is perfectly fine as a street car.