George Zimmerman

[BurtonRiderT6]

This whole thing is just more evidence that this country is still divided, history repeats itself and I can see in the near future another civil war only this time between races. There's some people in this world that are too extreme with their beliefs whether it be race, religion, gender, age, and/or whatever else. A lot of those are found in my work place and it's ridiculous.

If Zimmerman is deemed white then so should Obama, it's only fair.

There was nothing illegal about a man approaching another. What's illegal is attacking another and once the trial starts we will find out what happened, not what everyone wants to think happened.

[deevergote]

It was the initial attack that truly determines guilt. Zimmerman, as neighborhood watch, was within his rights to approach Martin to confirm that he wasn't doing anything suspicious. Martin ran, Zimmerman followed. Unwise, especially against the advice of the 911 operator, but STILL within his right as a watchman.

Once Zimmerman caught Martin, a fight ensued. Zimmerman sustained clear injuries, and there are reports of a scuffle. It was at this time Zimmerman fired.
While excessive, it IS possible that the shot was fired in self defense. It is far more likely that Zimmerman feared for his safety and shot, rather than it being a racially-charged slaying. But a scared little man that shoots a 17 year old kid that's kicking the crap out of him is not a hot topic for discussion, and it doesn't sell newspapers.

Zimmerman SHOULD be charged with manslaughter of some degree, as he did chase Martin when instructed not to, initiated contact, and essentially caused the fight to happen. Even if the shot was fired in self defense, it was excessive force against an unarmed minor, especially when the confrontation was avoidable in the first place.


Race should be removed from this topic completely.

[Shadow1]

-true Zimmerman said a racial slur over the phone while talking to the dispatcher.
-true there were multiple break ins in that neighborhood that year and most of them(and from the reports stated above all of them) were young black males.
-Treyvon did not live in the community.


in the end. Zimmerman is wrong. period. case closed. reasons?
-Zimmerman shot an UNARMED PERSON! nothing can be said after that. why? your carrying a gun. someone is running AWAY FROM YOU with no weapon. your instructed by a 911 dispatch NOT to pursue the person. and he shot the person.
-Treyvon's father lived there. had Zimmerman not been a d*** and paid attention like he was SUPPOSED to to his community, he would have known this. being neighborhood watch means knowing your neighbors and the neighborhood. Zimmerman obviously didnt.

no matter what evidence is there. no matter how Treyvon looks, case in point is Zimmerman still shot someone fleeing AWAY from him that was UNARMED. not Treyvon did something wrong to Zimmerman and ran. even after being instructed by the dispatcher, he still pursued and brought the gun WITH HIM. which means he had intentions of shooting the kid in the 1st place. last time i checked, if you have a gun, your taught to find reason NOT to use it until absolutely needed. and the guy has a felony on his record. so he shouldn't have had a gun in the 1st place.

Zimmerman is wrong. he shot someone unarmed running away from him. period. let this thread die. there doesnt need to be anymore discussion about it.

[Ralphie]

Damn from day one I was the only one saying fuck racism....the motherfucker should have called the cops and kept his fucking nose out of it.

No matter if he WANTED to kill him or NOT.....he regrets confronting him now.....I bet my life on that.

All he had to do was call the police.....this is a good example of why it doesn't need to be EVERYONES right to carry.

His little bullshit training did not prepare him to deal with this situation.


IF Trayvon did attack him from behind, you don't reach for your gun. You try to fight him off.

How many times have you seen fights between State Troopers and people pulled over on the side of the road.

Go ahead, fuck with a Trooper. He isn't going to shoot you unless you try to reach for something.

He is going to give you one hell of an asskicking once he gets the upperhand(and his buddies arrive).

Again, even if the kid in the second picture is Trayvon, Zimmerman could have overpowered him.

Instead he shot him.

Should have let the cops deal with it.

The end.

[deevergote]

-true Zimmerman said a racial slur over the phone while talking to the dispatcher.
-true there were multiple break ins in that neighborhood that year and most of them(and from the reports stated above all of them) were young black males.
-Treyvon did not live in the community.


in the end. Zimmerman is wrong. period. case closed. reasons?
-Zimmerman shot an UNARMED PERSON! nothing can be said after that. why? your carrying a gun. someone is running AWAY FROM YOU with no weapon. your instructed by a 911 dispatch NOT to pursue the person. and he shot the person.
-Treyvon's father lived there. had Zimmerman not been a d*** and paid attention like he was SUPPOSED to to his community, he would have known this. being neighborhood watch means knowing your neighbors and the neighborhood. Zimmerman obviously didnt.

no matter what evidence is there. no matter how Treyvon looks, case in point is Zimmerman still shot someone fleeing AWAY from him that was UNARMED. not Treyvon did something wrong to Zimmerman and ran. even after being instructed by the dispatcher, he still pursued and brought the gun WITH HIM. which means he had intentions of shooting the kid in the 1st place. last time i checked, if you have a gun, your taught to find reason NOT to use it until absolutely needed. and the guy has a felony on his record. so he shouldn't have had a gun in the 1st place.

Zimmerman is wrong. he shot someone unarmed running away from him. period. let this thread die. there doesnt need to be anymore discussion about it.

It's not really confirmed that Zimmerman shot him as he was fleeing. That was an assumption people made. Zimmerman did indeed sustain injuries that are clear evidence of a scuffle... so he didn't just hunt Martin down and blast him in the back.

I DO agree that it was excessive force, even for self defense, but I don't believe it was in cold blood.
Also, from my understanding, when Zimmerman first attempted to question Martin, Martin fled. If you run from anyone doing some sort of security work, be it a cop, a guard, or a neighborhood watchman, you are automatically acting suspicious. If Martin just stopped and said "I'm just going to my dad's at *dad's address*", then no trouble would have occurred. Granted, as a 17 year old kid walking around a night, when some authoritative dude starts yelling... running is the first instinct. I probably would've just tried to hightail it to my dad's as well, were I in Martin's position!

Damn from day one I was the only one saying fuck racism....the motherfucker should have called the cops and kept his fucking nose out of it.

No matter if he WANTED to kill him or NOT.....he regrets confronting him now.....I bet my life on that.

All he had to do was call the police.....this is a good example of why it doesn't need to be EVERYONES right to carry.

His little bullshit training did not prepare him to deal with this situation.


IF Trayvon did attack him from behind, you don't reach for your gun. You try to fight him off.

How many times have you seen fights between State Troopers and people pulled over on the side of the road.

Go ahead, fuck with a Trooper. He isn't going to shoot you unless you try to reach for something.

He is going to give you one hell of an asskicking once he gets the upperhand(and his buddies arrive).

Again, even if the kid in the second picture is Trayvon, Martin could have overpowered him.

Instead he shot him.

Should have let the cops deal with it.

The end.

EXACTLY.
That was Zimmerman's mistake. He called the cops, and didn't let it go from there. Either the cops would show up and catch the "suspicious person" (Martin) and determine that he was doing nothing wrong... or they wouldn't. Either way, Zimmerman would have scared off the burglar, if that is indeed what Martin was (he wasn't, but if he was.)

A neighborhood watchman is supposed to observe and report, and question only when safe to do so. Chasing an individual and engaging in an altercation is NOT what they are supposed to be doing. Self defense or not, Zimmerman put himself into that position. A position he should not have been in. ESPECIALLY with a loaded weapon. If I ever decide to cc a weapon, I will do everything in my power to avoid any situation that presents even the most remote possibility that I might need to draw and fire it!

[BurtonRiderT6]

For those that seem to think he was bigger than him and could have fought him off means absolutely nothing and it's just the misconception that everyone seems to have. Just because someone has more weight does not mean he is stronger. See if you could over power a Urijah Faber if he attacked you from behind. Just because they are small doesn't mean you can take him, especially if they have the upper hand by attacking you from behind.

He has a felony and shouldn't have a gun anyway? Thats funny because unlike most shootings this was done with a registered gun that was legally in his name.

Unarmed or not means nothing in self defense and fear for your life. Kinda like the don't bring a knife to a gun fight saying. It's not excessive unless its KNOWN that the attacker is unarmed and even then it can be justifiable.

Was Zimmerman right in shooting Martin? Only a panel of his peers can decide that. Whether you think he's guilty or not is just another opinion based off media bias.

[Ralphie]

EXACTLY.
That was Zimmerman's mistake. He called the cops, and didn't let it go from there. Either the cops would show up and catch the "suspicious person" (Martin) and determine that he was doing nothing wrong... or they wouldn't. Either way, Zimmerman would have scared off the burglar, if that is indeed what Martin was (he wasn't, but if he was.)

A neighborhood watchman is supposed to observe and report, and question only when safe to do so. Chasing an individual and engaging in an altercation is NOT what they are supposed to be doing. Self defense or not, Zimmerman put himself into that position. A position he should not have been in. ESPECIALLY with a loaded weapon. If I ever decide to cc a weapon, I will do everything in my power to avoid any situation that presents even the most remote possibility that I might need to draw and fire it!

That's exactly the mindset your supposed to have when carrying a firearm.

You are suppose to do everything within your power to control ANY situation that arises that could even remotely turn violent.

When you draw that weapon, it is because you know that within the next few seconds you could be dead if you do not intervene with deadly force.

Tv and movies glamorize that shit to much.

Cops don't go running around with guns drawn every time they show up somewhere UNLESS they are clearing a premises that MAY have suspects on site.

Laws are just too fucking silly in some circumstances and way to lenient in others and for that, this kid is dead and a family devastated.

[Ralphie]

For those that seem to think he was bigger than him and could have fought him off means absolutely nothing and it's just the misconception that everyone seems to have. Just because someone has more weight does not mean he is stronger. See if you could over power a Urijah Faber if he attacked you from behind. Just because they are small doesn't mean you can take him, especially if they have the upper hand by attacking you from behind.

He has a felony and shouldn't have a gun anyway? Thats funny because unlike most shootings this was done with a registered gun that was legally in his name.

Unarmed or not means nothing in self defense and fear for your life. Kinda like the don't bring a knife to a gun fight saying. It's not excessive unless its KNOWN that the attacker is unarmed and even then it can be justifiable.

Was Zimmerman right in shooting Martin? Only a panel of his peers can decide that. Whether you think he's guilty or not is just another opinion based off media bias.

I don't even know what the fuck Urijah Faber is, this was a fucking typical teenager.

Im sure he wasn't fucking Bruce Lee's fucking master or Ken from Street Fighter.

Give me a fucking break.

Im not out to lynch Zimmerman, but its painfully obvious that he escalated a situation and it turned on him and he froze up and shot a kid that DID NOT need to be shot.

If the kid was actively raping a fucking baby then shoot him.

He was just walking around.

Really?

[deevergote]

At the time of the shooting, Martin was most likely beating the living shit out of Zimmerman.

Could Zimmerman have legitimately feared for his life? Sure. It was dark, and the guy he was fighting was probably more than he expected.
I'm not a little guy, but I've been in fights with little guys. I've been in fights with bigger guys. And BurtonRiderT6 is right in the fact that size isn't everything. Big or small, an attacker can still overpower you. Neither was a trained fighter, so one lucky hit would turn the tables. Zimmerman got whacked in the back of the head. That's scary. Dude most likely panicked, drew his gun, and fired.

Even if it was excessive... even if it wasn't... the fact of the matter is that the situation WAS AVOIDABLE. That right there is the key factor that must be taken into consideration in this case. Self defense, racism, "right to carry", Florida's "stand your ground law"... all arguable points from whatever perspective you want to take. Everything that happened after Zimmerman's call to 911 had only 2 witnesses... and one of them is dead. We will NEVER know the complete story. Even Zimmerman doesn't know the complete story, because he was in an excited state. By his actions, we already know exactly what he believes to have happened.

We KNOW, for an absolute FACT, that Zimmerman pursued an unnecessary course of action, against the advice of the 911 operator, who was dispatching properly trained police officers to the scene. We know for a FACT that Zimmerman pursued Martin, entered into an unnecessary altercation, and fired his weapon.
The simple fact that Zimmerman never should have pursued or engaged Martin is exactly why the man is guilty. I wouldn't say guilty of murder, but certainly guilty of manslaughter.

[Ralphie]

I agree 100% on the notion that small guys can fight....let me put that out there.

I don't consider myself a big guy and I know I could hold my own.

I've known dudes 5'2 that are quick little bastards and can throw down.

It is all about awareness and attention to detail really.

Whatever our opinions are, I still stand on the fact that Zimmerman was NOT the man for this job.

He obviously couldn't maintain hand to hand combat skills and he was way to quick to pull a weapon.

He has 0 stab wounds so I don't think a bullet for a punch in the back of the head is justified lol.

[toycar]

Interesting article I read a long time ago;


http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...-a-drug-dealer


I personally have a hard time thinking George Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd degree murder, or really guilty at all. I think he had bad judgement that resuled in a death, so maybe manslaughter but even thats questionable because he was within his legal rights to be there and to have a gun.

And just to throw it out there, the current theory is that Martin confronted Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost sight of him. Zimmerman claims Martin double backed through the terrace, there are pics in that article.

Anyways, the story is Martin confronted Zimmerman, they exchanged words and when Zimmerman reached for his phone Marting punched him in the nose and Zimmerman fell down.

Once on the ground Martin got on top of him and started bashing his head against the sidewalk, at which point Zimmerman shot him.





For me, the key question is when did he put the bullet in the chamber? Its a semi aut handgun, so he had to have cocked the gun in order shoot the kid.


Does he always have a round in the chamber? Did he cock the gun after getting out of the vehicle? During the struggle?


Thats the key to me. When he did it shows intent, and I think he will have a hard time saying he did it during the struggle. So what was it, when he got out of the vehicle, or does he always have a bullet in the chamber?



Either way, i have not felt that the media gave Zimmerman a fair shot from square one. I felt so in a way that an arguement broke out with someone who felt Zimmerman was a bigot and we were both banned for having a heated debate over it.

i'll leave my opinion at that.

Im glad to see the story unfolding, and am curious to see what happens next.

[deevergote]

I agree 100% on the notion that small guys can fight....let me put that out there.

I don't consider myself a big guy and I know I could hold my own.

I've known dudes 5'2 that are quick little bastards and can throw down.

It is all about awareness and attention to detail really.

Whatever our opinions are, I still stand on the fact that Zimmerman was NOT the man for this job.

He obviously couldn't maintain hand to hand combat skills and he was way to quick to pull a weapon.

He has 0 stab wounds so I don't think a bullet for a punch in the back of the head is justified lol.

You met my friend Bob... the singer of my old band. He's 5'3, and a tough little bastard. There's a standing threat that if he ever whacks me in the nuts again (he's done it twice before) that I'll knock his midget ass out. He doesn't believe I can do it. I'm sure I can, but I know if I'm not quick about it, the little man could do some damage! I honestly hope the day never comes where I have to follow through with that threat.

And really, a punch to the head can be just as dangerous as a blade or a bullet. Another buddy of mine (ironically, also about 5'3) got in an argument in a bar over a girl. He decked the guy. Hit him just right in the head, and the guy was dead. One punch, not even intended to kill. My friend spent a few years in prison for manslaughter.
In calm retrospect, drawing and firing a gun against a man fighting with just his fists DOES seem excessive... but when you're getting pummeled, and you have a weapon capable of stopping the onslaught, your thought process can be quite different!

You're absolutely right that Zimmerman was the wrong man... but "the job" didn't entail pursuing and engaging suspects. He fulfilled his duty when he called 911. Following in his truck and never exiting the vehicle would be pushing the limits, but still acceptable behavior to an extent. Exiting the vehicle to confront the suspect, while carrying an loaded weapon... THAT is far beyond the scope of the position he held.

[Ralphie]

See in both this thread and the one you created on pedo's, the convo has remained civil.

I guess the "children" are at school.

Or still sleeping.

Wait until they get home, then that's when the opinions really start flying lol.

[BurtonRiderT6]

I don't even know what the fuck Urijah Faber is, this was a fucking typical teenager.

Im sure he wasn't fucking Bruce Lee's fucking master or Ken from Street Fighter.

Give me a fucking break.

Im not out to lynch Zimmerman, but its painfully obvious that he escalated a situation and it turned on him and he froze up and shot a kid that DID NOT need to be shot.

If the kid was actively raping a fucking baby then shoot him.

He was just walking around.

Really?

Doesn't have to be a master of martial arts. Not everyone has the same degree of toughness. Some rattle easier than others, hence the size means nothing. Urijah Faber is a 135lb MMA.

Anders Behring Breivik was just walking around too. Now 69 dead teenagers later he was arrested and will serve a MAX of 21 years in prison if found guilty and sane at the time, in which he claims he was.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

Hopefully you are never put into a position in which you get judged prior to having a fair trial.

Would your position be any different if it was an off-duty black cop? Can't say white because the masses would scream racist cop kills innocent black teen. Just being a teenager means nothing, kids are bigger and stronger nowadays.

[Ralphie]

You met my friend Bob... the singer of my old band. He's 5'3, and a tough little bastard. There's a standing threat that if he ever whacks me in the nuts again (he's done it twice before) that I'll knock his midget ass out. He doesn't believe I can do it. I'm sure I can, but I know if I'm not quick about it, the little man could do some damage! I honestly hope the day never comes where I have to follow through with that threat.

And really, a punch to the head can be just as dangerous as a blade or a bullet. Another buddy of mine (ironically, also about 5'3) got in an argument in a bar over a girl. He decked the guy. Hit him just right in the head, and the guy was dead. One punch, not even intended to kill. My friend spent a few years in prison for manslaughter.
In calm retrospect, drawing and firing a gun against a man fighting with just his fists DOES seem excessive... but when you're getting pummeled, and you have a weapon capable of stopping the onslaught, your thought process can be quite different!

You're absolutely right that Zimmerman was the wrong man... but "the job" didn't entail pursuing and engaging suspects. He fulfilled his duty when he called 911. Following in his truck and never exiting the vehicle would be pushing the limits, but still acceptable behavior to an extent. Exiting the vehicle to confront the suspect, while carrying an loaded weapon... THAT is far beyond the scope of the position he held.

LOL!...Damn twice....that sucks!

Yea he isn't the biggest guy ive met but I can see how he'd do some damage.

Yes, a strategically placed punch, IS more deadly then a knife or bullet.

Plenty of times a knife or bullet misses major arteries/veins and just causes damage.

A punch like your friend wielded at the bar, IS deadly.

The problem I have with that scenario, is very few people can pull that off.

Your friend did it on accident.

Just a punch that landed in the wrong spot.

So with that knowledge, one could assume that everyone knows how to punch like that, and just shoot anyone who attacks you.

Or you could try to get the upper hand and control of the situation and prevent it from escalating to deadly force.

If he had done that, trayvon would still be alive.

Zimmerman would have bruises and life would go on.