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    Instagram's new policy.

    Instagram has recently announced that they will begin selling images uploaded by their users. The sale of these images will generate profit only for Instagram, and will not be passed to the original owner of the image (I say original owner, because Instagram is essentially implying that any image uploaded to their site becomes the property of Instagram.) The images can be sold to be used in advertising without alerting the previous owner, and thus, advertising could be created using a person's image without their knowledge (and without compensation.)

    Essentially, this is the bit in their TOS that says this:

    Instagram does NOT claim ANY ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post on or through the Instagram Services. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Instagram Services, you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content not shared publicly ("private") will not be distributed outside the Instagram Services.
    Instagram says on their blog:
    Nothing has changed about your photos’ ownership or who can see them.
    That sounds fishy, given the statement made in their TOS, though...
    They're denying ownership of the content, but claiming that using their service grants them limitless rights to use the uploaded images.

    Now, aside from the fact that the very idea of selling such images without alerting/compensating the creator of the image is absolutely reprehensible, there are some serious issues to consider.

    One that is glaringly obvious is the fact that Instagram's TOS requires users to be 13 years old or older. A 13 year old cannot be held to a contract. Therefore, accepting such terms are, by law, considered an invalid contract. Instagram suggests that they assume any minor is accepting the terms based on an adult guardian's approval... but that's not much different than selling cigarettes to a 13 year old who claims they're buying them for their mother. Seriously, how many parents even know their 13-17 year old child HAS an Instagram account, let alone what they post on it?

    Furthermore, the issue of the CONTENT posted by a minor on Instagram comes into question.
    You may not post nude, partially nude, or sexually suggestive photos.
    Ok, that makes sense, right? Right.
    HOWEVER, how many duckface cleavage shots are posted on Instagram every day by underage girls? A ton, I assure you (take a look on Google... not hard to find them... please don't post them here, though...)
    Is such a thing "sexually suggestive"? Not terribly, no. Not just as an innocent "cute" picture uploaded by a teenager to her own personal Instagram account to share with her friends.
    But now we introduce the idea of selling such a picture. When random internet pervs can now BUY that picture, it takes on a bit of a new meaning, I'd say. It's not exactly "kiddie porn", but it's not a terribly wholesome business, either.




    Your thoughts?







    #2
    I actually took the time to read the whole TOS and am debating about it, personally. On one side, the pictures I take are mine and mine only; nobody else should profit from my work unless I do too. On the other hand, my instagram pics are mainly just cool little things taken with my cell phone that I want to share with my friends or behind the scenes pictures from photoshoots and films - nothing I would plan on selling anyway. I never post stuff I take with my actual camera to instagram. I enjoy using it, but their business practices are pretty bad.

    If I do decide to quit using their service, i wont delete my account as some are suggesting. I will insteaddelete all of my previous pictures and take an instagram picture of a toilet full of the biggest turd i can produce, labeling it "sell this shit, Zuck."

    Click for my Member's Ride Thread
    Originally posted by Stephen Fry
    'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry
    Eye Level Media - Commercial & Automotive Photography: www.EyeLevelSTL.com

    Comment


      #3
      That is funny... damn fine print.

      BTW, duckface photos are horrible, why would anyone want to look like Stephen Hawking...
      Last edited by wildBill83; 12-18-2012, 04:34 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Agreed, duckface is terrible... but look how many are on there of girls in low-cut tank tops take pictures showing their little beesting cleavage? You can be damn sure there are sickos out there that will wank to that shit...


        And yeah, nothing "good" is usually posted with Instagram (though a facebook friend of a friend said something about posting his artwork via Instagram)

        Still, I don't need a tampon company using that picture I posted last year of my girlfriend frolicking innocently on the beach in her bikini. It's not "sexually suggestive", but it's not exactly something I (or she) would want sold for use in advertising, either!
        by the way, that's a purely hypothetical situation...






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          #5
          I'm glad I never got an account with Instagram. And now reading this, NEVER!!!
          Accord Of The Month January 09
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            #6
            I want to note that I am not a lawyer, and I'm only speaking about the laws here in the United States.

            This is no different than what Facebook or other online services do with your content. Some of them require you to relinquish ownership (copyright), and others require you to give license (essentially copyright) to the service. This is in the fine print everywhere, and is legally accepted. You can have a license without having ownership; enough said.

            As for the 13 year old debacle, it is widely understood that Internet Service Providers cannot be held liable if someone lies to them about their age. As long as the ISP is up front about the law and is doing so in good faith, then they are more or less free of any impending charges.

            I don't see what the fuss is all about. There's a reason I choose not to use these online services. Put your money where your mouth is folks; stick up for yourself and get others to follow suit. If everyone does that, these issues will resolve themselves. Unfortunately, in the society we live in everything is all about instant gratification and free this and free that, mine mine mine! Eventually that kind of thinking is going to come around and bite you in the ass.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by RICHIE*GT35R View Post
              I'm glad I never got an account with Instagram. And now reading this, NEVER!!!
              I totally agree with you but I do have an account but haven't ever posted images, I only got it to view friends photos

              PSN ID's:Tidashoni
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              Originally posted by deevergote
              Boosting with a carb is like being a sniper with a bazooka... it works, it gets the job done, but it's not the most precise method.

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                #8
                I was hoping for more of a discussion, not just a bunch of "Instagram sucks!" agreements... Have you guys read anything more about it than just what I said here? Because my words are my opinion... backed up by facts, but they are largely opinion.

                Anyway, as a converse argument, here's an article:
                http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/18/3...ey-really-mean

                My beef with that article is that it mentions that Instagram cannot modify the images you upload... which is clearly contradicted in the bit I posted above (taken directly from Instagram's TOS today.) According to the TOS, Instagram does indeed reserve the right to modify your images.

                That article mentions a company like Budweiser using Instagram images from a particular bar to advertise. Not altering the images, simply saying "here are images of Budwesier at this bar!"... but that could be no different that the hypothetical tampon company I mentioned above posting a picture of my girlfriend. Not saying "She's got one inside of her!"... just showing an attractive girl in a bathing suit having fun... you know, like the PAID MODELS do in current tampon advertisements. They don't have to modify the picture... just display it in conjunction with their own advertisement, and it becomes part of a whole.






                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by reklipz View Post
                  As for the 13 year old debacle, it is widely understood that Internet Service Providers cannot be held liable if someone lies to them about their age. As long as the ISP is up front about the law and is doing so in good faith, then they are more or less free of any impending charges.
                  It's not about the ISP, though... it's about the end user (the minor), and the service that they are uploading images to. If the service begins selling their images, or using them in advertising... it could end badly for the service. Especially if they use an image of an actual person. If the image of a 13 year old girl is used for something that her friends find amusing, that girl could be teased relentlessly... kids can be VERY cruel. Such things could end up being emotionally damaging for a child, based on a "contract" that they are not old enough to be held responsible for, under the implied assumption that the child received parental permission (which is a HUGE stretch, legally speaking.)


                  I'm not a lawyer, either... but I have a business degree, and I have taken a number of business law classes (aced every one, as well.)






                  Comment


                    #10
                    this is in no way similar to facebook's current policy. they state that they can reproduce and redistribute for the purposes of hosting your images on their servers, nothing about profiting on the pictures.

                    the way it reads, Instagram is trying to turn into a stock photography site without paying the content creators.

                    Click for my Member's Ride Thread
                    Originally posted by Stephen Fry
                    'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry
                    Eye Level Media - Commercial & Automotive Photography: www.EyeLevelSTL.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Stickydiljoe joey from the chronicles posted thus earlier.

                      STANCE|WORKS

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by steelbluesleepR View Post
                        this is in no way similar to facebook's current policy. they state that they can reproduce and redistribute for the purposes of hosting your images on their servers, nothing about profiting on the pictures.

                        the way it reads, Instagram is trying to turn into a stock photography site without paying the content creators.
                        That's exactly what it seems to be.
                        Arguments that I'm reading now seem to be saying that the images will be used as "accompanying" photos... not directly incorporated into advertisements, but displayed in conjunction with them.
                        So a picture of my smiling face might not have "VIAGRA" posted on it... but it might be displayed on a page that is selling Viagra, with the knowledge that an image of a smiling dude that looks to be the appropriate age for the drug (I look freakin' old...) is more effective than the advertisement alone. Instead of hiring a model, they just use an effectively appropriate picture for a fraction of the cost.




                        Tracie, Joey has a point... BUT... some people have images worth using. Photos of themselves or others at famous landmarks, photos of themselves or others performing certain activities, photos of their cars, photos of bands or sports teams (that's a tricky one... would you be able to use an image of a celebrity or famous organization via Instagram without paying royalties to the subject of the image?)

                        My dinner or my footlong turd might not be of any use to anyone... but the good city of Philadelphia might think that sweet picture of me running up the Art Museum steps at sunrise in my gray sweats is pretty awesome.






                        Comment


                          #13
                          You guys and gals don't have to use Instagram. I don't know what else to say. If you don't like the policy, don't patronize the service.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I don't use Instagram. I have never used Instagram. I have no intention of ever using Instagram.

                            I simply created the thread as a forum for an intelligent discussion about their questionable policy change.





                            I see that this forum is incapable of such intelligent discussion. Sad. I guess we're done here. Back to Facebook, I suppose.






                            Comment


                              #15
                              Unlocked.

                              Let's try to actually have an intelligent conversation, shall we?
                              If I see one more "I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but Instagram sucks!" type response, I'm going to shit.


                              Read the TOS, or at least read carefully the points that I made in the initial post and give me your thoughts on it. Educated opinions are the stuff good discussions are made of. Uneducated opinions are absolutely worthless.






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