the Gun Control thread

[ProSouth]

ridiculous, you already can't buy a complete gun online anyway. period. it has to go through a gun dealer, more fees, and back ground checks. plenty of assault weapons have only the pistol grip. they have stocks that collapse. few AR's have bayonet mounts and a flash suppressor can easily be removed. fucking retarded.

[H311RA151N]

Stewie, I’m having a hard time following exactly what your for and against and what your saying and what your not saying. So here are my questions.

In short what is your solution to gun violence in the US?

In Canada it’s not impossible to purchase and own a gun but it currently is more difficult. Do you suggest that the US needs more gun control than Canada or to adopt the same gun laws?

I could look this one up and perhaps it’s already in this thread but, what are Canada’s current gun laws and do you feel that they work?

Im just after simplified answers on the basics.

[8ball]

Gun control ??? Really, they are restricting civilians from ownership and just enticing criminals to rob peoples houses and take their guns from them, genius

[Ralphie]

Well no matter what becomes of it, im not really worried because I have authorization to conceal carry in all 50 states.

Booyah bitches.

[stewie]

Stewie, I’m having a hard time following exactly what your for and against and what your saying and what your not saying. So here are my questions.

In short what is your solution to gun violence in the US?

In Canada it’s not impossible to purchase and own a gun but it currently is more difficult. Do you suggest that the US needs more gun control than Canada or to adopt the same gun laws?

I could look this one up and perhaps it’s already in this thread but, what are Canada’s current gun laws and do you feel that they work?

Im just after simplified answers on the basics.

im all up for guns. i do feel that certain guns should not be allowed to civillians though.

my solution to gun violence is to beefen up the laws of what you can and cant have, and who can and cant have a firearm(mentally ill people).

im not saying US needs more gun control laws than canada, i was just using canada as a reference since i know my laws are much more strict. if america were to adopt laws similar to canada or even stricter, i do believe it would help out the situation over time. but by no means am i saying canadas gun laws are right and yours are wrong. but from an outsiders point of view, i do personally think that americas gun laws could be greatly improoved.

i do feel canadas gun laws work. theyre simple and satisfying. i will never need to use a high powered machine gun for defence for my house hold, to me thats just absurd. the laws are what ive said a few times, you apply, take a course, a test, a physical test to prove your knowledge, a police interview followed by 3 reference interviews. you get your licence, and from that day on you will never need a background check when you purchase a gun.

pistols are capped at 10 rounds, rifles at 5. anything made for military use is banned to public. even if a scope is used by military...banned.

theres more but i will write at night time when i get home, i am currently on my gfs laptop and she wants to watch last sundays episode of revenge lol.

-edit-

She's laying down now, but our laws are on this wiki page under the laws and regulations
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada

[8ball]

no more rights left in #merica

fuck this place im going to international waters

[stewie]

ok, now im home.

so for those that didnt want to read the wiki site.

ill recap what i said prior

i do feel canadas gun laws work. theyre simple and satisfying. i will never need to use a high powered machine gun for defence for my house hold, to me thats just absurd. the laws are what ive said a few times, you apply, take a course, a test, a physical test to prove your knowledge, a police interview followed by 3 reference interviews. you get your licence, and from that day on you will never need a background check when you purchase a gun.

pistols are capped at 10 rounds, rifles at 5. anything made for military use is banned to public. even if a scope is used by military...banned.

with your licence, its a photo id, just like a drivers licence, must be renewed every 5 years with a new photo.

the only people who may carry a pistol on them in public are police officers, armoured guards that deal with large ammounts of money or important/high risk items, and even then they can only carry at work, the gun must stay in their work locker at the end of the shift, or someone in remote areas...like a game warden.

all firearms used to have to be registered, but just recently they took the need out for long guns. so just pistols need to be registered. but to do that you need to fill out a registration form, then the reg. is done at a shop, the owner of the shop(or whoevers working) takes down every detail of that gun and has to submit it to the RCMP.

no firearms licence and you cant even touch a firearm in a store. even if your in there with your best friend, hes holding a pistol debating to buy it or not...you ask to hold it...your both being kicked out. you need to be 18 years or older to buy a gun, or you can be 12 years old and get a minors licence which allows you to use a firearm unsupervised and you can purchase ammo.

firearms are split in 3 categories, restricted(you need a firearms licence that allows you to use a pistol, and these can ONLY be used at designated shooting ranges - you need a non restricted licence before you can get a restricted licence), non-restricted (rifles and shotguns, can be used at ranges, or for hunting), and prohibited(barrel length under 4inches, fully auto, tazers that the police use, suppressors and a few others, basically all the guns that aren't allowed in canada).

while transporting pistols, the weapon must be unloaded, locked, and in a locked case with the ammo seperated. rifles just need a trigger lock. as i said before, pistols can only go to and from a designated area.

basically if your an average joe, its a criminal offence to have a restricted weapon in public.

thats more or less the gun laws in canada, each province follows them.

do i feel the laws work, absolutely. sure we've already had a few gun related deaths in my city this year(when i say my city, im speaking of the entire lower mainland comprising of vancouver, and about 8 other cities that surround it.) and each one of them so far has been a gang related death.

im not saying adopt our laws cause ours are better, but i do think american gun laws could be improved. the only way to see results is to try change. like what new york has done, good for them, i applaud them, they stepped up to the plate when no one else would. if 1 year from now the firearm related deaths in NY goes down, i think that should be enough for other states to consider change as well.

hope that answers you h3llra151n

[ProSouth]

Ok so you show up with all things required to acquire a firearm or firearms license, you do it all legal and your limited to 7 or 10 rounds. The guy in Georgia was shot 5 times with a .38 and missed with one shot. He lived. Say she had one more shot and hit him, he would probably still be alive unless hitting him in the head or chest, and guess what. He'll walk in no time on good behavior. If he had a gun, do you think he would abide by these laws, fuck no. That's the correct answer. You think he wouldn't own an assault weapon because Obama says he can't. Fuck no. Your absolutely WRONG if you think gun control will work. People will be robbed, assaulted and raped left and right. If you want to run extensive checks, fine. But don't limit me.

[toycar]

After all this shit happened I took a hard look at my own personal gun ownership habits. I personally have made some adjustments, and am currently working with a gun broker to sell most of my guns.


Why?



Because the 36 weapons I am selling will equate to just under $20,000 cash. Well, just under $18,500.



The truth of it guys is a really honest question I had to ask myself. I mentioned it earlier in the thread.





What if my son, continues on just like me. What if my habits lead to my son being some extremist or armed to the teeth whacko? What if making a small change in my life now, could equate to a HUGE change in his life later. What if our parents made this change 30 years ago, where would we be as a country now? And, with all of that in mind, at what point should people start that progressive, intergenerational change?



I understand where I could give the impression of a whacko for owning so many weapons and having so much ammo. Is it really needed? I honestly don't know anymore. I really don't. I bought guns throughout my life, and eventually I had a bunch of them. I didn't set out to own so many guns at any one point. Over time they accumulate if you don't sell. It just happens.


So, im getting rid of most of my guns.



Just so its out there;

I think in this situation half of the problem is that you'll never know how many situations you prevent so its hard to proove the effectiveness of change. And the other side of the conversation is unwilling to negotiate without proof of the plan working first.

[8ball]

^ I have a total of 5 and i think its plenty, I know people with more but I think anything over 10 is pushing it.

I tell em you know in the event that you might actually get into a gunfight, you know you are only one man right? You know you can only use one gun at a time right?

The first time I seen a weapons cache I nearly shit my self. Literally brief cases (plural) full of hand guns. Literally and abundance of ak47s (plural) just every where and then SMG's to top it off and how funny it was that I had no clue this guy was packin so much heat.
That too me is excessive but its his right to bear arms. But if some one would break into his house that is easily enough fire power to arm a large gang, just food for thought.

[stewie]

Ok so you show up with all things required to acquire a firearm or firearms license, you do it all legal and your limited to 7 or 10 rounds. The guy in Georgia was shot 5 times with a .38 and missed with one shot. He lived. Say she had one more shot and hit him, he would probably still be alive unless hitting him in the head or chest, and guess what. He'll walk in no time on good behavior. If he had a gun, do you think he would abide by these laws, fuck no. That's the correct answer. You think he wouldn't own an assault weapon because Obama says he can't. Fuck no. Your absolutely WRONG if you think gun control will work. People will be robbed, assaulted and raped left and right. If you want to run extensive checks, fine. But don't limit me.

prosouth...there is no correct answer. like others have said, if they want to kill, they WILL do it. i think gun control will work because im willing to give it a try...you wont even accept the idea of trying something new to at least see...your like a 90 year old man refusing to use a computer/technology because he doesnt like the way the new world runs and he wants to live in the past.

if 90% of america voted for strict gun laws, and you are part of the the 10% against it, would you conform and change your views to the 90%? become a typical "sheep" and follow the herd? or would you play the role of the rebel?

After all this shit happened I took a hard look at my own personal gun ownership habits. I personally have made some adjustments, and am currently working with a gun broker to sell most of my guns.

Why?

Because the 36 weapons I am selling will equate to just under $20,000 cash. Well, just under $18,500.

The truth of it guys is a really honest question I had to ask myself. I mentioned it earlier in the thread.

What if my son, continues on just like me. What if my habits lead to my son being some extremist or armed to the teeth whacko? What if making a small change in my life now, could equate to a HUGE change in his life later. What if our parents made this change 30 years ago, where would we be as a country now? And, with all of that in mind, at what point should people start that progressive, intergenerational change?

I understand where I could give the impression of a whacko for owning so many weapons and having so much ammo. Is it really needed? I honestly don't know anymore. I really don't. I bought guns throughout my life, and eventually I had a bunch of them. I didn't set out to own so many guns at any one point. Over time they accumulate if you don't sell. It just happens.

wow, good for you toycar! thats what i tried saying earlier, about our kids eventually 1-upping us. we can willingly make a small sacrafice to hopefully better our lives and our kids and grandchildrens lives, but to grasp that idea to some is just insane.

[toycar]

wow, good for you toycar! thats what i tried saying earlier, about our kids eventually 1-upping us. we can willingly make a small sacrafice to hopefully better our lives and our kids and grandchildrens lives, but to grasp that idea to some is just insane.

I kept a pair of hunting rifles, pair of semi auto handguns, pair of revolvers and a pair of shotguns.

Wife talked me into selling the rest. I'm giving most of the money to my oldest son, to fund his civic project and the rest is going to pay for a ski trip to Denver.


Seems to me like a great opportunity to take something that could be negative and turn it into something positive, so I did. I still have guns, but, for sure my opinion has changed quite a bit.


No more assault rifles in our home. No more laser attachments on hand guns. No more anything that illustrates the weapon as anything other than a tool. I'm no longer going to view guns as "cool" or express that sort of opinion around people I can or do influence.

If the gun doesn't have a domestic purpose, it will not be in our home any longer. I'm still armed, Ill still shoot a burglar twice, nothing changed there.


Really my "safety" hasn't been jeopardized at all, and I am positive the example I will carry going forward about gun ownership will NOT be encouraging towards excessive or unneeded weapons.



And, my fnfal, .308 is easily just as good of a weapon than any of my AK or AR pieces were. It's a hunting rifle though. For hunting, not war. could be used in war, was used in war by sharp shooters long ago. Still, its a hunting rifle.

Sure it'd blast someone just the same, but no need for flame supressors, bayonets, grenade launcher attachments, collapsable stocks, laser guides, night vision scopes or anything else that excites people into thinking guns are "cool"


Guns are tools, meant for a purpose. If the only purpose of the weapon is classified as war, there's no war in my house or on my land. So, those are tools I do not need in my tool box. There's really no need. Plenty of other ways to defend yourself or hunt. If I need to defend myself, and the weapons I still will own are innadequate, than may god have mercy on us all. In the event the guns I'm keeping weren't enough to protect my interests, the guns I'm selling now wouldn't make a single bit if difference anyways.


"cool" guns are probably in part to blame for the excitement and interest between youth and weapons. So that is also part of my adjustment as well.

[owequitit]

After all this shit happened I took a hard look at my own personal gun ownership habits. I personally have made some adjustments, and am currently working with a gun broker to sell most of my guns.


Why?



Because the 36 weapons I am selling will equate to just under $20,000 cash. Well, just under $18,500.



The truth of it guys is a really honest question I had to ask myself. I mentioned it earlier in the thread.





What if my son, continues on just like me. What if my habits lead to my son being some extremist or armed to the teeth whacko? What if making a small change in my life now, could equate to a HUGE change in his life later. What if our parents made this change 30 years ago, where would we be as a country now? And, with all of that in mind, at what point should people start that progressive, intergenerational change?



I understand where I could give the impression of a whacko for owning so many weapons and having so much ammo. Is it really needed? I honestly don't know anymore. I really don't. I bought guns throughout my life, and eventually I had a bunch of them. I didn't set out to own so many guns at any one point. Over time they accumulate if you don't sell. It just happens.


So, im getting rid of most of my guns.



Just so its out there;

I think in this situation half of the problem is that you'll never know how many situations you prevent so its hard to proove the effectiveness of change. And the other side of the conversation is unwilling to negotiate without proof of the plan working first.

But see, this is a personal CHOICE. It is one thing to choose to NOT have guns. It is another to be told you can't. And here is something that will really blow your wad. Imagine with all of these preventive measures, your son hooks up with kids who get him into guns and he becomes a nut anyway...

You know, sort of like how kids get into drugs even though their parents tried everything to prevent it from happening? Ultimately, he is going to be a sentient being and will make his own choices.

Besides, "extremism" as you put it is behavioral (isn't if funny how that word keeps coming up) and is NOT based on any specific quantity of guns. I know tons of people that have HUNDREDS of guns, and they are perfectly functional members of society. Where I come from 36 guns is a drop in the bucket. I know one guy in particular that likes to collect guns and he has 4-5 of the large gun safes packed full of weapons. No issues with him. He is a veteran, runs a business, pays his taxes, is educated, normal and interacts socially with no issues. He simply likes to collect and picks up a lot of guns when people sell them because they need money.

However, as you are able to excercise YOUR choice, other law abiding citizens should be able to excercise theirs too. For the record, I have no problem with your choice, and respect it. If that clears your conscience, and it makes you feel better by all means. I have no problem with it because it does not interfere with my life. This country used to be about free choice, but now it is just about the American Idol generation (where basic math skills are a social burden to most) trying to turn everyone into their own self image.

theres a dozen pages of quotes and questions, many which have not been answered. if you've specific questions in mind that ive missed, instead of waiting for me to go searching through 100's of quotes and posts, why not just re write it if its not a lengthy in depth question?



i dont think were on the same page when im talking about background checks.

your saying its the person selling him the gun that gets blamed because he doesn't have access to the information that a buyer is mentally unstable? what im trying to say is when you have the test, its a 1 time thing. you have an interview with police, a 30minute-1 hour indepth interview. the police do a phone call interview that lasts 5 minutes with a doctor(the proffesional) who has access to your medical history, and a simple "yes" or "no" from a doctor saying if he thinks your mentally stable enough to own one, no details need to be given, just a yes or a no. a 5 minute phone call with your boss and the police to try to get a 2nd opinion. and finally a 5 minute call with a close friend of 5 years of more who can vouch for all the information you've given them during your interview with the police. upon completion, after all the paper works done and what not, you get a licence in the mail. similar to a drivers licence. thats it. done deal. no licence, you cant even touch a firearm in a store. if any point through out your life after that point, if you start to go on meds for depression or anything like that sort, when any doctor looks at your file, it'll have your name, age, birth place, possesion holder and etc. if for any reason the doctor thinks you might not be safe, he has the right and legal obligation to notify someone. he wont lose his guns at all, but for the time being, they should be closely supervised, maybe even just give the key to the safe to a family member to hold onto for safe keeping.



yes, your right, i will quickly shit myself...wasn't aware you knew anything about me as to who i am or how confident i am in myself, but your right, ill shit myself crawl into the fetal position and stick my thumb in my mouth. but your right, im all talk, how foolish of me to not realize that on my own.



everything is a what if, from my statements, to yours saying how over the past 100 years, governments have killed over100 million people by disarming them first. you have absolutely no proof that your government is going to do that now, your just assuming because thats how it was started in the past.



well, in my books, you flat out called me uneducated.
im not dragging this topic off track, just about every post of mine has had to do with gun control and how i think it could be improved. almost every response i get is something to do with "our forefathers this" "its our right" "2nd ammendment" or "our government will take over".

but since your clearly so much smarter than me on this topic(not sarcasm), i'll just sit back and watch and let your country attempt fix your own problems. best of luck.

Stewie, you aren't the on same page as reality in the US apparently.

My question was VERY simple. How are YOUR proposed methods going to deal with the problem and create a solution that is actually effective (rather than just making you feel snug and smug in your ideological belief that it is fixed), in light of consistent factual data that has shot down the same bullshit you have been shoveling for 12 pages over and over?

To be honest, you are as bad as the Democrats. Same broken record response, same propaganda, same indoctrinated, spoon fed ideology over and over.

You have seen 12 pages of data that show LEGAL gun owners are not the problem, and yet you keep pushing gun controls on those who weapons legally. You have seen 12 pages of repeated data that PROVES felons are the culprit and felons (by definition) do not follow the law. When queried about this, you spend roughly 3 pages dancing around the question, and then try to pretend yet again that your solution is effective.

You do know the difference between ignorance and stupidity right?

Ignorance is defined as a lack of information on the subject matter. You know, such as making baseless claims when being unfamiliar with years worth of data. Ignorance can be fixed with information.

Stupidity is when a person is faced with that same data, can logically see their approach is flawed, but continues to pursue it anyway because they don't want to admit that their construct of reality was incorrect. Just like the Democrats are doing with gun control. It has nothing to do with effective solutions and everything to do with pursuing a personal and emotional agenda.

So guess what? The US is going to pass their legislation with Adolf Obama circumventing the legal process if he can't get what he wants, and in 10 years time, we are going to see that the legislation was 100% ineffective, just like it was when they passed it in 1994.

And Americans better get ready for a cold, hard reality check because I predict that within the next year or two we are going to see school crimes escalate substantially because A) we have done ZERO to address the problem and B) in the absence of "guns" they are going to start bombing and doing other, worse shit.

The only semi-logical legislation I have seen so far is Massachusetts' gun bill which spends a fair bit of attention to the mental issues, screening and a lot less time banning weapons from lawful citizens. However, given the nature and blatant reality of gun crime in the US, it still is going to be largely ineffective. In fact, Boston was the city where the 75% of gun victims being felons came from.

So good luck. You are going to need it.

As a parting thought, your logic is like the US government's policy on Methamphetamine. In order to "stop" the production of Meth, we put all kinds of limits on buying cold medicine. You can't have any meds that work for common allergies, cold, or flu with ephedrine or pseudophedrine in them because you might be a meth dealer. So you sign a list, get watched by the DEA and suffer extra hassle to cure a common medical ailment. Guess how much it reduced Meth in the US? None. In fact, not only did it not reduce Meth flow in the US, but it actually INCREASED. Why? The cartels started importing it from Mexico, where it is built in huge ass labs and the government doesn't give a shit. They are more efficient at producing, trafficking and selling. They have more infrastructure than mom and pop meth dealers. Just like there are 300+ million Russian guns waiting to be purchased on the black market and the Russians really don't give a shit who buys them as long as they get paid. So when the assault weapons in the US dry up because nobody is allowed to produce them anymore, guess what happens? They just keep importing them through Mexico just like they are now (because felons can't buy guns in the US anyway), and were during the Brady Bill (which is why it was ineffective on assault weapons violence, which hardly exists anyway).

You want to know the real bitch of it all? Not only does this minor reality completely shoot your proposition to utter smithereens (because you don't have to deal with the Mexican Border directly and no amount of internal control will cut off the supply from other countries), but the Dictator in Chief absolutely refuses to secure the damn thing, which is making it easier to get illegal shit, not harder. At this point, the only way to classify the policy behavior is stupidity.

[ProSouth]

I'm not like a 90 year old man refusing to use a computer. why don't you come down to Georgia. I'll show you my town. and THEN you tell me that my law abiding ass doesnt need a gun with 10+ rounds in it Stewart. and 8ball, your right. I am only one man. i can only use one(or two hand guns) at a time. so when i need more than the restricted 7 rounds. i'll have to tell the multiple intruders to please stop, while i pick up my other gun. and then we can continue. you think he's gonna time out with his assault rifle that holds 20 plus. or his glock with a 20rd extended clip. no. come hang out here. I'll put you in a hotel right in the middle of the hood. or put you in the trailer park down the road that my friend who is a sheriff is at most nights for robbery and fights.

[owequitit]

P.S. Stewie, we will continue to revisit this conversation periodically, to monitor the progress of your new gun control policies, since Obama has spewed forth the same rubbish you do.

Hope for your sake they are effective...