Controversial discussion... please keep it mature!

[Ralphie]

Actually, you can get fined for not mowing your lawn...

Not everyplace-

And that's not the point LOL

[deevergote]

[Ralphie]

My grass was knee high last week....

Between rain and my schedule, i couldn't mow it.

Only problem is my neighborhood is ritzy lol, so I was the sore thumb so I mowed the shit in the rain so not only would my house not look like shit, but so it would be ready for Monday since I BBQ for fam and friends.

[toycar]

But aside from extreme, traumatic circumstances... nobody is going to change someone's inborn sexual preference. Essentially, the only way to do that would be brainwashing in one form or another.
Being made someone's bitch in prison is traumatic. It is essentially brainwashing.
Unless the older girl is forcing the younger girl to perform homosexual acts, be it by threats, coercion, or emotional manipulation... then there is no brainwashing going on. If the girl is ***, she's ***. She may also be straight, and simply experimenting and/or rebelling... as it's not uncommon. In which case, she was never "turned ***"... she was never "***" at all!

"allowing" your child to be homosexual is not bad parenting. No more than "allowing" them to be left handed. In fact, forbidding it, if it is indeed the natural course of things, would be pretty awful parenting. MAJOR psychological damage can be done to a child if they announce their homosexuality and they are rejected by their parents.

So what if a parent can tell that a person is influencing their kid for the worse, but acting on that knowledge is only going to make things worse in the big picture? I know you aren't just supposed to let your kids get swept away into whatever the issue is(not referring to sexual orientation right now, just a general statement)

If initially the parents gave the daughter space to try and let her do her thing, at what point should they step in? I don't really think that forbidding the act itself is a bad thing if it is honestly how you feel. Why not tell your kids the truth? I don't approve, I still love you.

Whats wrong with that?



Also, what if the girl wasn't exclusive with the other girl and the parents knew the girl was feeling things out and confused? Why not express an honest opinion and have an honest conversation about all of the above?

[deevergote]

If the girl isn't *** by nature, she's not going to turn *** by experimenting with another girl. If the daughter is doing questionable things (in regards to other acts, not necessarily homosexual stuff...) then the parents have the responsibility to stop her.
There's a difference between natural homosexuality and self-destructive deviant behavior. If your child is *** and you reject them, it can cause damage. Being rejected by your parents, the people that have brought you into the world, simply for being what you are... being the way you were born, not what you chose to be... that can cause irreparable damage.
However, if your child is simply acting out, being a rebel, engaging in deviant behavior as a clear attempt to exert their independence... then yes, such activity should be monitored and brought to a halt if the parents deem it harmful. Drug use, body mutilation, property destruction, careless promiscuity... those things are dangerous behaviors for a child (well, for an adult as well... but the child is the parents' responsibility.)
Falling in love with a member of the same sex is not harmful deviant behavior.

And for the inevitable "how would the child know if they're homosexual?" argument... I knew I liked girls when I was about 5 years old. I can recall checking out my preschool class for the cutest girls. I can remember which girl I was attracted to in kindergarten (she's a mannish lesbian now... ). I knew I liked girls at that young age. Should not a homosexual child realize they like members of the same sex at a similar age?

[LadyG]

If initially the parents gave the daughter space to try and let her do her thing, at what point should they step in? I don't really think that forbidding the act itself is a bad thing if it is honestly how you feel. Why not tell your kids the truth? I don't approve, I still love you.

Whats wrong with that?

They filed CRIMINAL charges against their daughter's lover...
Forbidding the act/ forbidding contact should have happened LONG before.

If they REALLY were TRYING to give a shit, and not just be homohaters.

[LadyG]

If your child is *** and you reject them, it can cause damage. Being rejected by your parents, the people that have brought you into the world, simply for being what you are... being the way you were born, not what you chose to be... that can cause irreparable damage.

Indeed. And would it not almost be abusive, rather than having that open, honest conversation, to prosecute the other person- in a "See what happened to teh homo? Do you want that to happen to you?" fashion.

Lots of girls have lesbian experiences. Mostly, as children. Its part of body exploration. BUT, you quickly figure out, either Men occupy that place, or other women. MOST of the *** people I know, knew they were ***. The ones that didn't come out till later, often lived in repressive households.

The power of a controlling and judgmental family, is... heavy.

**edit: I also know an "Asexual" dude. He is into both.

[deevergote]

But the technicality is that they filed criminal charges against their 15 year old daughter's ADULT lover.
The core of their actions was clearly bigotry... but the core of the following legal matter is the adult/child relationship, not the sexual orientation of those involved.


The parents apparently did forbid it, but the simple fact that they could not control their own child brings the effectiveness of their efforts, even their effectiveness as parents, into question.

There was a recent situation in a fairly affluent neighborhood near me. The situation involved a man that was holed up in his parents' house (not sure if the parents were being held hostage or not...) The SWAT team was even on the scene. The parents had a restraining order against their own son.
That's a pretty extreme situation... but if you're a parent and you need a restraining order against your own child, chances are you failed that child as a parent.

[toycar]

They filed CRIMINAL charges against their daughter's lover...
Forbidding the act/ forbidding contact should have happened LONG before.

If they REALLY were TRYING to give a shit, and not just be homohaters.

Yeah I was just more saying as an example, not specifically these parents in particular. I agree that if they were actually giving a shit they would've done something about it on day one if there was anything to be done.

If the girl isn't *** by nature, she's not going to turn *** by experimenting with another girl. If the daughter is doing questionable things (in regards to other acts, not necessarily homosexual stuff...) then the parents have the responsibility to stop her.
There's a difference between natural homosexuality and self-destructive deviant behavior. If your child is *** and you reject them, it can cause damage. Being rejected by your parents, the people that have brought you into the world, simply for being what you are... being the way you were born, not what you chose to be... that can cause irreparable damage.
However, if your child is simply acting out, being a rebel, engaging in deviant behavior as a clear attempt to exert their independence... then yes, such activity should be monitored and brought to a halt if the parents deem it harmful. Drug use, body mutilation, property destruction, careless promiscuity... those things are dangerous behaviors for a child (well, for an adult as well... but the child is the parents' responsibility.)
Falling in love with a member of the same sex is not harmful deviant behavior.

And for the inevitable "how would the child know if they're homosexual?" argument... I knew I liked girls when I was about 5 years old. I can recall checking out my preschool class for the cutest girls. I can remember which girl I was attracted to in kindergarten (she's a mannish lesbian now... ). I knew I liked girls at that young age. Should not a homosexual child realize they like members of the same sex at a similar age?

So what if 6 months from now you started hanging around some *** guy and started being fabulous?


Is it wrong for the ones closest to you to question this new person in your life, your new lifestyle or what exactly is driving the change if since you were 5 years old you liked girls and on may 29th 2013 you said this in this post?


I mean, thats the arguement here. How could you say that someone is born that way and didn't realize it until they were 33-34 years old? You spend your entire life one way, meet this new *** guy, and then change everything and defend it with the " I was born this way I have no choice" arguement. As a bystander to the observed change, isn't a safe assumption to think the new *** guy in your life might have something to do with your new views on things?

[deevergote]

Wouldn't "asexual" be into neither?

My friend's wife's best friend is like that. Very pretty girl. Never had a boyfriend OR a girlfriend. Dresses nice, but with no apparent effort at sex appeal. Her own best friend doesn't know her sexual orientation. She's not at all stereotypically ***. She also doesn't ever make comments about men. She seems to have absolutely no interest whatsoever.

Totally my type.

[Ralphie]

LOL.

Ya Asexual is into neither. Supposedly that was Michael Jackson's preference, besides little boys.

I thought plant's were the only living things that were asexual, and frogs. Definitely frogs.

[toycar]

Wouldn't "asexual" be into neither?

My friend's wife's best friend is like that. Very pretty girl. Never had a boyfriend OR a girlfriend. Dresses nice, but with no apparent effort at sex appeal. Her own best friend doesn't know her sexual orientation. She's not at all stereotypically ***. She also doesn't ever make comments about men. She seems to have absolutely no interest whatsoever.

Totally my type.

Blank sheet of paper kind of guy eh? I dig that too. Those are the ones that intelectually actually know what they want. They know it so well, they don't need to constantly bounce ideas off of others seeking acceptance/rejection. They don't measure themselves off of anyone.

Thats my wife right there. Knows EXACTLY what she wants in life. Nothing better than clear, open communication in a relationship.

[deevergote]

Yeah I was just more saying as an example, not specifically these parents in particular. I agree that if they were actually giving a shit they would've done something about it on day one if there was anything to be done.








So what if 6 months from now you started hanging around some *** guy and started being fabulous?


Is it wrong for the ones closest to you to question this new person in your life, your new lifestyle or what exactly is driving the change if since you were 5 years old you liked girls and on may 29th 2013 you said this in this post?


I mean, thats the arguement here. How could you say that someone is born that way and didn't realize it until they were 33-34 years old? As a bystander to the observed change, isn't a safe assumption to think the new *** guy in your life might have something to do with your new views on things?

He won't change how my brain is wired. I could start filling the social stereotype of a homosexual man, but I truly have no desire to engage in sexual contact with a man in any way.
If anything like that happened, it would likely be the result of an emotional attraction that was confused for a physical one. It wouldn't mean I turned ***. The "maybe he's just confused" excuse has some merit, though it's often employed erroneously.

Someone who has grown up in a seriously repressive household/community/church/etc... can deny their homosexual desires. I'm sure there are some Catholic priests and nuns that are homosexual, that won't admit it, and that have devoted themselves to celibate dedication to god in order to avoid and deny that reality... because what they hold dear, their religion, rejects what they are. Denial IS a very real possibility. Someone could be in denial until they were in their middle years, but largely because of society... or because they HOPED they could change.

But if you're checking out little girls before you even know that it's the "correct" thing to do... you're probably not going to magically turn ***, no matter how many fabulous people you hang with. You might act like them socially, but not sexually.

[deevergote]

Blank sheet of paper kind of guy eh? I dig that too. Those are the ones that intelectually actually know what they want. They know it so well, they don't need to constantly bounce ideas off of others seeking acceptance/rejection. They don't measure themselves off of anyone.

Thats my wife right there. Knows EXACTLY what she wants in life. Nothing better than clear, open communication in a relationship.

That girl just got a doctorate in psychology, too... psychologists are always the most messed up!
I wish I had moved faster toward my own psych doctorate. Then I could impress her with my big brain!

[Ralphie]

He won't change how my brain is wired. I could start filling the social stereotype of a homosexual man, but I truly have no desire to engage in sexual contact with a man in any way.
If anything like that happened, it would likely be the result of an emotional attraction that was confused for a physical one. It wouldn't mean I turned ***. The "maybe he's just confused" excuse has some merit, though it's often employed erroneously.

Someone who has grown up in a seriously repressive household/community/church/etc... can deny their homosexual desires. I'm sure there are some Catholic priests and nuns that are homosexual, that won't admit it, and that have devoted themselves to celibate dedication to god in order to avoid and deny that reality... because what they hold dear, their religion, rejects what they are. Denial IS a very real possibility. Someone could be in denial until they were in their middle years, but largely because of society... or because they HOPED they could change.

But if you're checking out little girls before you even know that it's the "correct" thing to do... you're probably not going to magically turn ***, no matter how many fabulous people you hang with. You might act like them socially, but not sexually.

Im not directing this at you, Justin-


But I fail to understand how people don't understand that logic.

It makes perfectly good sense.

I can't wrap my brain around the notion that people magically become ***.

You either are or you are not. There are those who experiment, but are already hard wired for one way and eventually discover that....

there are those who actually prefer both.

and then there is the rest of us.

Idk, quite simple to me.