I've just been doing a lot of thinking lately about cars, the people that drive and work on them, and well.... intelligence. I recently ended up with a 95 eagle talon tsi and have been doing a lot of reading about crank walk and oil pumps and weak points with the car. And as great as dsmtuners is. It is incredibly frustrating to be on that site for too long. I feel like logical rational thought has outright died there. Basically I'll use three examples starting with crank walk to describe what I'm getting at.
Crank walk is a mysterious ailment that afflicts the 7 bolt 4G63 engine in the late 1g and all 2g dsmtuners vehicles. Some say that it doesn't occur in the revised thrust bearing that was used late in 97 and newer dsms. This phenomenon is a wearing of the thrust bearing on flywheel side of the thrust bearing only. This excessive wear allows the crank to move in it's journals so much that the crank position sensor eventually comes into contact with the ring it's sensing off of and will kill the engine. Many theorized this problem is cause by oil squirter getting stuck open and allowing oil pressure to leave the main bearings and get out of the squirter instead, some believe it's the main girdle not being properly aligned and that leaves the thrust bearings out of line essentially placing heavier loads on one half of the thrust bearing. Some think it's poor machining or metal quality from the factory. I'm not here to discuss my thoughts on the subject. Only the lack of rational thought. So far the only sure fire fool proof way to make sure you don't get crankwalk is to swap in a 6 bolt 4G63 out of a 1g dsm. This to me is absolutely bat shit crazy. Because people have gone so far as eliminating the oil squirters, adding a set of dowel pins to ensure that the main girdle cannot move and stays aligned, and had all the measurements blue printed on their crank, thrust surface, bearings and block, and still experienced this failure. Still more people blame heavy spring pressure clutches, but many people with bone stock vehicles have experienced crankwalk. So logic would indicate that these are not the real issues. And still the solution remains to get rid of your 7 bolt engine entirely.
And then people who find they do have excessive crank end play think just shoving in a new set of bearings will fix the problem. And traditionally, this is not generally proper procedure for any engine when excessive bearing play is discovered.
My talon needs an oil pump and not wanting to spend $285 on an oem mitsubishi pump for a car I bought for $500, I looked for alternatives and found ACL and Melling both make aftermarket pumps. Coming from a mostly Chrysler background I was stoked because both
pumps were less than half the cost of the oem mitsubishi pump. I again turned to dsmtuners to see if anyone had experience with either one. Apparently ACL race bearings are the bearings to have on your DSM but the oil pump was regarded as garbage and most stories were of the "I know a guy who knew a guy who used one and it blew up in 5 miles" variety. "Don't waste your time with aftermarket" "only oem mitsu." These are the responses to most questions about parts. But ebay 16g and 20g turbos are okay with this crowd.
I'm going to buy a Melling pump... they're good enough for 1000hp v8's.
Then I was curious knowing that h22s usually get solid timing belt tensioners put in, if this was a worthwhile mod on a 4g63. Most people are horribly confused on this saying that it would be dumb because you'd have to adjust it like 10 times between every oil change. I saw a glimmer of hope with one post saying that Honda B series don't have a tensioner and they are fine. But the same person said later that they have a spring that tensions them. These hydraulic tensioner have been known to be a potential source of problems and cost $100-120 for a manual or hydraulic tensioner. To my knowledge modern timing belts don't stretch much and have chords in them like a tire. Our f22s don't have a tensioner and our timing belt service interval is 60k miles! So why would they bash hondas and say that the tensioner is a shiney waste of money unless your dsm is a race car when there are other makes and models that do it regularly and have no issues?!
I understand wanting to err on the side of caution and use oem parts when possible and stuff but internal combustion engines are hardly a new concept. They aren't magic. This crankwalk problem is either a well guarded secret, or has just never been investigated by someone with the proper skills and knowledge. The oil pump I feel should be fine I use Melling pumps in all my small block mopars with no problems, and no one on that forum has ever mentioned priming their oiling system using any other method besides cranking with a fuse pulled (which is not the best method but usually works out). And I'm still on the fence about the tensioner. I'm going to do some more research on the topic and will make a decision based on the results.
I feel like rational thought and reasoning have gone out the window in a lot of automotive circles. The DSM guys aren't the only ones, just the easiest example I could think of. I guess it just bothers me when hear-say and uneducated assumptions dominate anytime a legitimate technical question is brought up. And DSMtuners is riddled with these sorts of people and it's unfortunate. I am stoked to have a turbo awd 5 speed car. But I hate knowing the "best" resource on the Web for them is so closed minded, illogical, and I'm basically never going to post because I'd be eaten alive at the first mention of owning a Honda. Not that that doesn't happen most places. I hate that owning a Honda makes you "that Honda guy" in the mind of whoever it is you're talking to usually.
Anyway, hopefully this wasn't completely incoherent and maybe others can relate to this. And remember kids! Misinformation is the same as knowledge and wisdom if you know a guy who blew his stuff up, you tell others to buy only oem parts, and you tell people that their behavior is somehow unsafe.
Crank walk is a mysterious ailment that afflicts the 7 bolt 4G63 engine in the late 1g and all 2g dsmtuners vehicles. Some say that it doesn't occur in the revised thrust bearing that was used late in 97 and newer dsms. This phenomenon is a wearing of the thrust bearing on flywheel side of the thrust bearing only. This excessive wear allows the crank to move in it's journals so much that the crank position sensor eventually comes into contact with the ring it's sensing off of and will kill the engine. Many theorized this problem is cause by oil squirter getting stuck open and allowing oil pressure to leave the main bearings and get out of the squirter instead, some believe it's the main girdle not being properly aligned and that leaves the thrust bearings out of line essentially placing heavier loads on one half of the thrust bearing. Some think it's poor machining or metal quality from the factory. I'm not here to discuss my thoughts on the subject. Only the lack of rational thought. So far the only sure fire fool proof way to make sure you don't get crankwalk is to swap in a 6 bolt 4G63 out of a 1g dsm. This to me is absolutely bat shit crazy. Because people have gone so far as eliminating the oil squirters, adding a set of dowel pins to ensure that the main girdle cannot move and stays aligned, and had all the measurements blue printed on their crank, thrust surface, bearings and block, and still experienced this failure. Still more people blame heavy spring pressure clutches, but many people with bone stock vehicles have experienced crankwalk. So logic would indicate that these are not the real issues. And still the solution remains to get rid of your 7 bolt engine entirely.
And then people who find they do have excessive crank end play think just shoving in a new set of bearings will fix the problem. And traditionally, this is not generally proper procedure for any engine when excessive bearing play is discovered.
My talon needs an oil pump and not wanting to spend $285 on an oem mitsubishi pump for a car I bought for $500, I looked for alternatives and found ACL and Melling both make aftermarket pumps. Coming from a mostly Chrysler background I was stoked because both
pumps were less than half the cost of the oem mitsubishi pump. I again turned to dsmtuners to see if anyone had experience with either one. Apparently ACL race bearings are the bearings to have on your DSM but the oil pump was regarded as garbage and most stories were of the "I know a guy who knew a guy who used one and it blew up in 5 miles" variety. "Don't waste your time with aftermarket" "only oem mitsu." These are the responses to most questions about parts. But ebay 16g and 20g turbos are okay with this crowd.
I'm going to buy a Melling pump... they're good enough for 1000hp v8's.
Then I was curious knowing that h22s usually get solid timing belt tensioners put in, if this was a worthwhile mod on a 4g63. Most people are horribly confused on this saying that it would be dumb because you'd have to adjust it like 10 times between every oil change. I saw a glimmer of hope with one post saying that Honda B series don't have a tensioner and they are fine. But the same person said later that they have a spring that tensions them. These hydraulic tensioner have been known to be a potential source of problems and cost $100-120 for a manual or hydraulic tensioner. To my knowledge modern timing belts don't stretch much and have chords in them like a tire. Our f22s don't have a tensioner and our timing belt service interval is 60k miles! So why would they bash hondas and say that the tensioner is a shiney waste of money unless your dsm is a race car when there are other makes and models that do it regularly and have no issues?!
I understand wanting to err on the side of caution and use oem parts when possible and stuff but internal combustion engines are hardly a new concept. They aren't magic. This crankwalk problem is either a well guarded secret, or has just never been investigated by someone with the proper skills and knowledge. The oil pump I feel should be fine I use Melling pumps in all my small block mopars with no problems, and no one on that forum has ever mentioned priming their oiling system using any other method besides cranking with a fuse pulled (which is not the best method but usually works out). And I'm still on the fence about the tensioner. I'm going to do some more research on the topic and will make a decision based on the results.
I feel like rational thought and reasoning have gone out the window in a lot of automotive circles. The DSM guys aren't the only ones, just the easiest example I could think of. I guess it just bothers me when hear-say and uneducated assumptions dominate anytime a legitimate technical question is brought up. And DSMtuners is riddled with these sorts of people and it's unfortunate. I am stoked to have a turbo awd 5 speed car. But I hate knowing the "best" resource on the Web for them is so closed minded, illogical, and I'm basically never going to post because I'd be eaten alive at the first mention of owning a Honda. Not that that doesn't happen most places. I hate that owning a Honda makes you "that Honda guy" in the mind of whoever it is you're talking to usually.
Anyway, hopefully this wasn't completely incoherent and maybe others can relate to this. And remember kids! Misinformation is the same as knowledge and wisdom if you know a guy who blew his stuff up, you tell others to buy only oem parts, and you tell people that their behavior is somehow unsafe.
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