Timing Belt Help

[Matthyooz11]

Okay, so I'm to the point where i have the motor lower, harmonic balancer and timing covers removed. My only concern is that during the course of fucking with it the crank and cam are no longer at TDC and my adjusting nut is backed out a little. Am i going to hurt anything if i turn them back to TDC now? I apologize if the description of my issue is a little vague, as this is my first time doing this.

update with pictures

[reklipz]

Are you referring to the tensioner adjustment nut?

If you're trying to put the engine back at TDC, so long as there is no slack in the belt you should be fine to turn it. Even with slack in the belt, so long as the two turn in "generally" the same rate (meaning if you skip a tooth or two due to slack before it turns) it's not going to harm much. I wouldn't let it hop off by more than a few teeth though; if it does, reset it back so the two are properly timed. I might mark the belt and gear teeth so you know if it comes out of time before you try to turn it.

If all else fails and you have no way to keep the two in time as you turn, you can remove the rocker assembly and camshaft and this will allow all of the valves to close. I would only do this as a last resort. In fact, If I knew the timing of the cam and crank and there was no belt on there, I would go find a belt and throw it on there so that I could turn the two with the method described above.

[Matthyooz11]

Yeah, I kind of realize in hindsight that it was stupid to try but changed my head gasket and i was trying to get the belt back up on the cam gear without taking the harmonic balancer and lower portion of the timing cover off. I loosened the adjusting nut and got the belt on and realized what i did i guess and now i have almost no tension the belts and my motors not at TDC, i got the mount, the cover, and the balancer off now so i can see everything. But im sort of panicking... haha

[Matthyooz11]

If you're trying to put the engine back at TDC, so long as there is no slack in the belt you should be fine to turn it. Even with slack in the belt, so long as the two turn in "generally" the same rate (meaning if you skip a tooth or two due to slack before it turns) it's not going to harm much. I wouldn't let it hop off by more than a few teeth though; if it does, reset it back so the two are properly timed. I might mark the belt and gear teeth so you know if it comes out of time before you try to turn it.

Okay, so this is what i was looking for, but if its a few teeth off and i've rolled it over completely is there any danger that i may have bent a valve or anything of that nature? and is it safe to go back the other way a small fraction of a turn to get the crank and cam back at tdc?

[reklipz]

Okay, so this is what i was looking for, but if its a few teeth off and i've rolled it over completely is there any danger that i may have bent a valve or anything of that nature? and is it safe to go back the other way a small fraction of a turn to get the crank and cam back at tdc?

I don't have any numbers to back me up, but I don't believe a tooth or two will harm anything. So long as you don't ever let it go past a tooth or two out of time then I think you will be fine. Perhaps someone else will be able to tell just how far out of time you can go before you cause interference, I don't know.

This of course assumes you know what the current timing of the crank and cam gears are. If they are still in time, then you are in luck. Make sure they are before proceeding.

Again, if you are paranoid, you can just remove the camshaft and set the crank properly, and then reinstall the cam with proper timing, and then you have nothing to worry about.

I don't know about going in reverse with the engine. Sorry!

[Matthyooz11]

I went and looked at it again after your last post. The two are pretty far off if im seeing it correctly, (assuming both arrows on the cam gear and crank gear are at 12" when its at TDC) its like a quarter of a turn off and ive rolled it over once completely... so im afraid of what i might have done to my valves.. at this point is it a lost cause or do you think my valves might be alright?

[reklipz]

I think you have a better understanding of what's been done to it than I have, I'm afraid.

If it were me coming to the project to put it back together, I would take off the camshaft and do as described. It's really not that much more work, though it will require a torque wrench (but you'd need that to do the headgasket work anyway).

The cam gear lines sit flush (horizontally) with the top of the head when it is at TDC. The crankshaft spins twice for every revolution of the camshaft, so keep that in mind. If the belt was off at all, and either of the two spun (the camshaft is under pressure from the valve springs, so it can move on its own), then all bets are off; take off the camshaft at this point.

As for the crankshaft, I don't recall what the indication is here. I think it's just the keyway for the harmonic balancer in the crankshaft, and I can't remember if it's up or down. You'll have to reference a manual or find an appropriate thread here.

--

Oh, actually, I think there is an arrow on the harmonic balancer somewhere or some such that matches with a mark on the block.

[Matthyooz11]

If the belt was off at all, and either of the two spun (the camshaft is under pressure from the valve springs, so it can move on its own), then all bets are off; take off the camshaft at this point.

Ugh, i felt like i was making a mistake trying to avoid the whole process of removing the balancer but i did it anyways...

Oh well.. I guess you cant learn if you dont try lol

[reklipz]

Sorry to bum you out, :/.

I am by no means a pro around here. You can wait for others to chime in as well, perhaps they'll have an idea I hadn't thought of.

[wildBill83]

Remove your head now, don't do anything else. With your head off check to see if your valves touched the pistons, you should be able to tell fairly easily. If you see no damage to either the pistons or the valves then set your block to TDC via setting the key way on the crank shaft to the marking on the block. Next set the head to TDC by making cam gear TOP arrow point up and leveling the markings that are 180deg apart to the valve cover mating surface on the head. Once everything is at TDC install the head to the motor and add the timing belt and tensioner. Once it is assembled roll the crank over twice and check TDC alignment. If you have not heat cycled your motor you will be ok with re-using the head gasket with no issue as long as you don't damage it re-doing the labor.

Is your motor in the car or in a stand?

[reklipz]

Thanks Bill, I totally missed the fact that the head still had to come off yet; I was thinking he was finishing up, not just starting.

[wildBill83]

Now would be a good time to replace a good deal of maintenance items too, if you pull the head and there is no damage.

You also may want to perform a test on your valves to see if they leak. Once you get it all back together do a compression test.

[Matthyooz11]

Is your motor in the car or in a stand?

Its in the car. and I was actually finishing up, I just did a poor job of it. haha... But i guess that is the best way to go about it... I just hate that i tried to work around it initially. Hind sight is always 20/20 though

[wildBill83]

Do it right or do it twice as the old adage goes. But yes, get a new head, exhaust and intake gasket. You will need them when you pull the head off the car.

[93redcb7]

ok i didnt read the whole post, but i know i turned my h22 over several times just by the crank to get it lined up, so i dont think you should bend valves on a f22.